| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29] > | 一个英国人的汉译英试译（以此接得某大项目） Thread poster: Alan Wang
|
|---|
ysun 
United States
Local time: 23:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
| That might be a good idea | Mar 23, 2009 |
dumont,
Probably, that would be the best way to settle this issue to your satisfaction. However, I’d like to point out that it doesn’t matter so much whether or not the other translator is a native English speaker. What really matters to you is whose translation is better. If my understanding is correct, that was your initial purpose when you started this topic of discussion to invite comments from the peers. To be fair, I suggest that, you post your translation exactly the ... See more dumont,
Probably, that would be the best way to settle this issue to your satisfaction. However, I’d like to point out that it doesn’t matter so much whether or not the other translator is a native English speaker. What really matters to you is whose translation is better. If my understanding is correct, that was your initial purpose when you started this topic of discussion to invite comments from the peers. To be fair, I suggest that, you post your translation exactly the same as what you initially posted without any changes and improvement. Thank you!
dumont wrote: a good(ish) idea I have a (I think) good idea to resolve the "native" issue that has been so much in Mr. Steve's mind. Or at least a goodish idea.  We can have the translation done by the "native" (at least that's what Mr. Steve so fervently believes) posted on a place somewhere in the site where true English natives can be invited in some workable numbers to comment on its "nativity", without the original Chinese since it's not really necessary for the purpose. Further, we can have the one done by me posted alongside it or following it, and let the same native people comment on its "non-nativity". In addition, it would be so much the better, if the commenter can be invited to grade the two works in nativity or non-nativity. If my score is so much as one iota lower than that of the one compared to, I will promise to admit wrong doing of whatever and even apologize to Mr. Steve for the perceived insults he thinks he has sustained from my clumsy remarks, as he deems appropriate. I guess the off topic forum would be one of the places worth considering? ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 00:41
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
isahuang wrote: dumont wrote: I have a (I think) good idea to resolve the "native" issue that has been so much in Mr. Steve's mind. Or at least a goodish idea. We can have the translation done by the "native" (at least that's what Mr. Steve so fervently believes) posted on a place somewhere in the site where true English natives can be invited in some workable numbers to comment on its "nativity", without the original Chinese since it's not really necessary for the purpose. Further, we can have the one done by me posted alongside it or following it, and let the same native people comment on its "non-nativity". In addition, it would be so much the better, if the commenter can be invited to grade the two works in nativity or non-nativity. If my score is so much as one iota lower than that of the one compared to, I will promise to admit wrong doing of whatever and even apologize to Mr. Steve for the perceived insults he thinks he has sustained from my clumsy remarks, as he deems appropriate. I guess the off topic forum would be one of the places worth considering? well, since the dollar has depreciated, it is probably only worth 1 cent now I think what you mean by "nativity" should be "nativeness". And "native people" is different from native speakers.
我的粗淺和缺乏見識的理解是ITY通常是動作性名詞﹐ NESS是狀態性名詞。也許我的這種說法以偏概全或甚為荒謬。
| | | | Kevin Yang
Local time: 21:41
Member (2003)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Being receptive can ignite inspirations. | Mar 23, 2009 |
Hello, wherestip and dumont,
It happens often that no one agrees with each other after a good debate. But, you both helped each other as well as our readers to see where you came from. You both give each other the opportunity to express your views and opinions. What makes a discussion valuable is to help all the parties to see the perspectives of the counter-party that he or she did not see previously. If one invites for the opinions of our peers, he or she should be mentally and ... See more Hello, wherestip and dumont,
It happens often that no one agrees with each other after a good debate. But, you both helped each other as well as our readers to see where you came from. You both give each other the opportunity to express your views and opinions. What makes a discussion valuable is to help all the parties to see the perspectives of the counter-party that he or she did not see previously. If one invites for the opinions of our peers, he or she should be mentally and psychological prepared for all kinds of comments, some of which might not be the exact wording he or she expected to hear. Being argumentative and defensive to the unexpected comments might defeat the purpose of inviting opinions and make other peers be unwilling to express their opinions. In a professional discussion, it is really not relevant that a participated party likes or dislikes another person. None of us would like to see it being brought to a personal level. The most beneficial approach is to listen to other people’s opinions with a humble and modest mindset. Being receptive can ignite inspirations.
Kevin ▲ Collapse
| | | | isahuang
Local time: 00:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 那这篇翻译不就成了peer-reviewed translation了吗？ | Mar 23, 2009 |
ysun wrote: dumont, Probably, that would be the best way to settle this issue to your satisfaction. However, I’d like to point out that it doesn’t matter so much whether or not the other translator is a native English speaker. What really matters to you is whose translation is better. If my understanding is correct, that was your initial purpose when you started this topic of discussion to invite comments from the peers. To be fair, I suggest that, you post your translation exactly the same as what you initially posted without any changes and improvement. Thank you! dumont wrote: a good(ish) idea I have a (I think) good idea to resolve the "native" issue that has been so much in Mr. Steve's mind. Or at least a goodish idea. We can have the translation done by the "native" (at least that's what Mr. Steve so fervently believes) posted on a place somewhere in the site where true English natives can be invited in some workable numbers to comment on its "nativity", without the original Chinese since it's not really necessary for the purpose. Further, we can have the one done by me posted alongside it or following it, and let the same native people comment on its "non-nativity". In addition, it would be so much the better, if the commenter can be invited to grade the two works in nativity or non-nativity. If my score is so much as one iota lower than that of the one compared to, I will promise to admit wrong doing of whatever and even apologize to Mr. Steve for the perceived insults he thinks he has sustained from my clumsy remarks, as he deems appropriate. I guess the off topic forum would be one of the places worth considering?
这会不会增加原创的说服力啊？
| | |
|
|
|
wherestip
United States
Local time: 23:41
Chinese to English
+ ...
Kevin Yang wrote:
Hello, wherestip and dumont,
It happens often that no one agrees with each other after a good debate. But, you both helped each other as well as our readers to see where you came from. You both give each other the opportunity to express your views and opinions. What makes a discussion valuable is to help all the parties to see the perspectives of the counter-party that he or she did not see previously. If one invites for the opinions of our peers, he or she should be mentally and psychological prepared for all kinds of comments, some of which might not be the exact wording he or she expected to hear. Being argumentative and defensive to the unexpected comments might defeat the purpose of inviting opinions and make other peers be unwilling to express their opinions. In a professional discussion, it is really not relevant that a participated party likes or dislikes another person. None of us would like to see it being brought to a personal level. The most beneficial approach is to listen to other people’s opinions with a humble and modest mindset. Being receptive can ignite inspirations.
Kevin
Thanks, Kevin, for moderating. I agree with everthing you said.
Anyway, I have nothing against people having a distorted image of themselves. I just prefer not to have them as friends.
If I were to pick between the two translations, I would pick the one done by the person who got the job hands down. But I believe I've already made that abundantly clear.
Like Yueyin said, it really isn't an issue of whether the person happened to be a native English speaker or not. The issue only came up when I stated that the numerous "mistakes" pointed out by dumont were not really mistakes since they are all speech patterns acceptable to a native English-speaking person.
[Edited at 2009-03-24 15:45 GMT]
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 23:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 你说的“这篇翻译”是指哪篇？ | Mar 23, 2009 |
isahuang wrote:
那这篇翻译不就成了peer-reviewed translation了吗？
这会不会增加原创的说服力啊？
Tingting,
不知你说的“这篇翻译”是指哪篇？据我理解，dumont 是打算把两篇译文都同时贴到 English forum 那里去让 native English speakers 评估。贴的时候两篇译文都不经任何修饰，都是“原创”，所以无论哪篇都不是 peer-reviewed translation。我认为只有这样才公正。记得以前有一个 KudoZ question 在这里讨论时也是双方争执不下，最后也是贴到 English-English KudoZ 那里才算尘埃落定。我相信我们一定能从那些 native English speakers 的评论中获益。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 23:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 'can not' vs cannot; definite article | Mar 23, 2009 |
lai an wrote:
can not vs cannot; definite article
提一个小问题: 二位 can not 为什么不写 cannot 呢？
另外that pressure boosting operation -> that the pressure boosting operation 怎么样？
[Edited at 2009-03-23 05:37 GMT]
Lesley,
Thank you for your question and suggestion. “Cannot” may be better than “can not” in this context. As to the use of definite article “the”, I think it depends on context. I don't know where the KudoZ question of “升压运行" originally came from, but if the term “升压运行" is mentioned for the first time in a document like the one at the following link, ‘the’ should not be used:
http://www.safetyinfo.com.cn/gangtie/safetyinfo.asp?ArticleID=11846
第49条 快开门式压力容器的快开门（盖）应设计安全联锁装置并应具有以下功能：
1． 当快开门达到预定关闭部位方能升压运行的联锁控制功能。
Otherwise, you are absolutely right. Thank you!
http://www.edufind.com/ENGLISH/grammar/Determiners2a.cfm
'The' is used:
1. to refer to something which has already been mentioned.
2. …
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 23:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
如果“升压运行”原文的句型与下面这篇《压力容器安全技术监察规程》类似，那么“冒号”还是不能去掉。
http://www.safetyinfo.com.cn/gangtie/safetyinfo.asp?ArticleID=11846
第49条 快开门式压力容器的快开门（盖）应设计安全联锁装置并应具有以下功能：
1． 当快开门�... See more 如果“升压运行”原文的句型与下面这篇《压力容器安全技术监察规程》类似，那么“冒号”还是不能去掉。
http://www.safetyinfo.com.cn/gangtie/safetyinfo.asp?ArticleID=11846
第49条 快开门式压力容器的快开门（盖）应设计安全联锁装置并应具有以下功能：
1． 当快开门达到预定关闭部位方能升压运行的联锁控制功能。
2． ......
3． ......
BTW，当我 Google “快开门式压力容器应当设置满足下列要求的安全联锁装置”时，偶然发现我翻译的那句话已经跑到“中国在线翻译网”去了，所以我以后说话更得小心点。:D
nigerose wrote:
现在想起来，会不会最初的英文就像我改成的句子：
“Pressure vessels with a quick-actuating closure should be equipped with a safety interlocking device that meets the requirement of having such an interlocking control function that pressure boosting operation can not be started until the quick-actuating closure reaches the predetermined closing position.”
然后被国内的翻译标准的人翻译成中文，当然对于requirement of 只好处理成冒号：
“快开门式压力容器应当设置满足下列要求的安全联锁装置：当快开门达到预定关闭部位方能升压运行的联锁控制功能。”
然后现在中文句子又落入你手里，让你翻译成英文。呵呵，翻译结果难免与原英文有出入。
所以，我不太认同通过back translation来确定翻译好坏的做法。
[Edited at 2009-03-24 01:37 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| the glass vs glass, chemical etching of glass vs the chemical etching of glass | Mar 24, 2009 |
Yueyin，问一下，您觉得这两个分句翻译得怎么样？
1 使用化学蚀刻方法在玻璃表面上 chemical etching was used on the glass -> on glass?
2 合适的化学蚀刻玻璃的方法 Suitable methods for chemical etching of glass -> for the chemical etching of glass?
Lesley
整个一段中译英在这儿。您有没有时间给大家评价？：
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/129475-一个英国人的汉译英试译（以此接得某大项目）-page7.html#1085846
[Edited at 2009-03-24 05:27 GMT]
| | | | nigerose
China
Local time: 12:41
Chinese to English
+ ...
ysun wrote:
BTW，当我 Google “快开门式压力容器应当设置满足下列要求的安全联锁装置”时，偶然发现我翻译的那句话已经跑到“中国在线翻译网”去了，所以我以后说话更得小心点。:D
哈哈，那个网站是个翻译成果收割机啊。
另外，这个论坛有点坛风不正啊，无必要地争来争去干嘛。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 23:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
nigerose wrote:
哈哈，那个网站是个翻译成果收割机啊。
另外，这个论坛有点坛风不正啊，无必要地争来争去干嘛。
看来他们什么都收。前几天我刚贬了一下他们贴出的一篇范文。说不定现在他们也正在用砖拍我呢。:D
与国内许多翻译论坛相比，这里的坛风还是很正的。只要是心平气和地探讨翻译问题，那就不能说是“坛风不正”。 当然，偶尔也会有人在此口出秽言，但很快就被“请”走了。
| | | | nigerose
China
Local time: 12:41
Chinese to English
+ ...
这种情况下还是可以用of而不用the following，of后面可以加冒号，也可以不加。
Pressure vessels with a quick-actuating closure should be equipped with a safety interlocking device and have the functions of （：）
1) interlocking control such that pressure boosting operation can not be started until the quick-actuating closure reaches the predetermined closing position;
2) ......such that..... ;
3) ......such that..... .
整段内容，包括1), 2) ,3)，其实就是一个句子。
这种行文方式在专利文件中也常见。
[修改时间: 2009-03-24 02:11 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
nigerose
China
Local time: 12:41
Chinese to English
+ ...
Dumont，既然你开这个帖子请peers评价你的译文，就应该虚心一点。
我觉得有个问题要提醒你一下，其实你也早就知道的道理。
翻译先要做到“信”，然后求“雅”。
你在论坛上的英文发言看来写得还比较“雅”。我不是学英文专业的，还写不出来呢。
但是，看看ysun在本帖子第三页指出的你的译文错误，基本上就栽在“信”上。做不到“信”，还跟native比什么nativeness？
国内专利翻译领域，基本上不会要英文专业毕业生做专利翻译，而是请理工科研究生博士生。当然理工科毕业生在英文水平上不如英语专业毕业生，但专利翻译最重要的是“信”，不需要“雅”。
其实无论什么翻译，首先要做到“信”。
[修改时间: 2009-03-24 02:23 GMT]
[修改时间: 2009-03-24 02:28 GMT]
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 23:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
nigerose wrote:
还是可以用of
...
应该还可以有其它译法。我前面说过，翻译不像数学题那样有标准答案。即使是数学题，还可能一题多解，甚至无穷多解呢。所以，取长补短很重要。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 23:41
English to Chinese
+ ...
Joyce Curran wrote:
这份压力容器落在我的手里，好像想当然的就该是落花流水了。我想，如果去了压力容器的专家手里，肯定是很拿得出手的。一家传十，十家传百的事总是时有发生的。我不明白，既然已经有了原文的翻译，还去费这么多的周折做什么(不过，我自从来到Proz, 就承认自己很多事情不明白)。
...
时间才过去两个来月，我实在想不起，也不想去看我过去的翻译。但是最终的翻译文章是通过我的PM，然后回到客户，再次通过他们的PM，才得以通过。我这样说并非说我的翻译有多地道，只想说明，我的翻译从离开我的掌控，就有可能被下一连串的人修改(有点推卸责任的嫌疑)。
Joyce,
国标需要译成外文，那很正常，因为与中国打交道的外国人需要用。 如果中国有关当局能颁布国标的外文版，那就用不着我们翻译了，也可以达到规范化，免得同一份国标有不同英译本。 可现实并非如此。尽管国标的某些段落可能是照国外或国际标准翻译过去的，但不会全文都照搬，而且除编者以外别人不知道哪些段落是照哪些标准翻译的。 因此，在可以预见的将来，你可能还得继续为国标头疼。;)
我相信你的客户对你翻译的国标是满意的，不必多担心。我也知道你翻译那些国标不容易。 但是换了别人来翻，也照样会不容易。你说“如果去了压力容器的专家手里，肯定是很拿得出手的”。 我看未必。你去比较一下某些科技杂志论文的中英文摘要，就知道了。 那可都是教授、研究生写的。我们在日常翻译过程中，也都要查词典、翻书、上网搜索、看参考文献，必要时也会上 KudoZ 去问。 这就是为什么我们一天只能翻译几千字而不是上万字。 水平高的人在这方面化的时间也许会相对少一些，但声称从来不查词典的翻译翻出来的东西，我相信你也已经领教了。
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » 一个英国人的汉译英试译（以此接得某大项目） | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
