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Y har tapt, nemlig rentespørsmålet

Glossary entry

Norwegian term or phrase:

bekk (in this context)

English translation:

stream/brook

Added to glossary by liz askew
Jul 14, 2012 18:41
11 yrs ago
Norwegian term

bekk (in this context)

Norwegian to English Other Geography
"Dette er Noreg sitt svar på amerikanske Ville Vesten, men på dei vindpinte viddene streifar reinsdyr i staden for bøffel, og i bekkane rundt omkring finst det aure i staden for gull."

I am seeking responses from a very specific group, namely, native users of UK English. So if you're a Yank, please hold your fire unless you're Bill Bryson or have similar credentials from long tenure in the U.K.

The issue here is my desire to use "creek" for "bekk" in this instance. In the (formerly) Wild West, only Eastern dandies would use "brook". (Some of them still name their own kids "Brook" sometimes ...) In the West, "creek" is the nearly universal term for such watercourses, e.g., the famous Sutter('s) Creek. See http://toponymia.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/creeks-and-brooks/ for the historical background.

"Stream" is a little too general for my taste here.

However, my research indicates that the Brits will conceive of a creek as a tidal feature (just as we do here in New England.) The streams in question are located far inland, on the edge of Jotunheimen. For the purpose of this particular tourism promotion, can I get away with using the otherwise best choice "creek", without confusing Britishers (and angering Norwegians educated in the U.K.)? If not, am I doomed to use "brook" or "stream"?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 stream/brook
References
Reports of cases argued and determined i...
Change log

Sep 13, 2012 07:37: liz askew Created KOG entry

Discussion

Yngve Roennike Jul 17, 2012:
Rivulet was not among them. Sounds touristy to me: Streams and rivulets....
Charles Ek (asker) Jul 16, 2012:
Here's a marvelous map that displays the differences across the U.S.: http://derekwatkins.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/dwatkins_uss...
Yngve Roennike Jul 16, 2012:
The battle of Bull Run? Did not know this was regional, but maybe it is. Through my subdivision runs a creek, btw.
Per Bergvall Jul 16, 2012:
Why not both? - and in the brooks and creeks around, there's trout instead of gold...
Charles Ek (asker) Jul 16, 2012:
I'm going to run from "run", as it's used only very regionally in the U.S. ;-) I'm looking for BE because it's tourism materials, and I believe the Sceptred Isle still sends more tourists to Norway than the U.S. An American will accept "brook", but a Brit might look askance at "creek". The frequency of the latter's confusion is what I'm trying to gauge here.
Yngve Roennike Jul 16, 2012:
Burn (poetic, Scotch) A small stream is a run, in US English, btw. Robert Burns has burn as in:
We twa hae paidl’d i' the burn, frae morning sun till dine; But seas between us braid hae roar’d, which Jeppe Aakjaer translated to bekk in Danish.
Why do you need BE when you are talking about the Wild West (in the US presumably)?
sin auld lang syne.
Christopher Schröder Jul 16, 2012:
Creek gets my vote from the U of K Yes it's US English but then you're rreferring to the Wild West anyway so it fits perfectly
liz askew Jul 15, 2012:
Hi Charles, great reference and great piece of information!
Charles Ek (asker) Jul 15, 2012:
"Brook comes from Old English, a language era arbitrarily designated as ending in A.D. 1150. Old English is only slightly modified Saxon, the Teutonic dialect those invaders brought with them from mainland Europe. The term has its root in the Saxon word broc, pronounced "bruk." When the Pilgrims finished naming the moving waters of the New World, there wasn't a creek, kill, or stream within miles of Plymouth. They were all brooks.
"Nor were trout unfamiliar to these settlers. Trout were abundant in English streams—true trout, brown trout to be exact, a close relative and genealogical spinoff of Atlantic salmon. That the fish they saw in Town Brook were really charr made no difference to Priscilla Mullins or anyone else who went there to fetch a pail of water. They were shaped like brown trout and they had spots like brown trout, although colored a bit differently. The only real distinction was that they tasted a lot better than English trout. These had to be trout, and because they were found in brooks, henceforth they were called brook trout." – http://tinyurl.com/7heumpe


The reason that American brooks are no longer fishable is a consequence of 400 years of European settlement.
Per Bergvall Jul 15, 2012:
If you can't fish in a brook, that's out. The text clearly states that in the 'bekkane' there's trout instead of gold.
jeffrey engberg Jul 15, 2012:
As an American (from California), I would go for brook. A brook is usually smaller than a stream and usually kind of rocky with no defined embankments. Somehow, I feel that one can fish in a stream - but never in a brook.?
Per Bergvall Jul 15, 2012:
Now that you natives have had your say - I'd just like to add that the Norwegian understanding of 'bekk' is no more complicated than 'small river'. It's big enough to never dry out completely, and you may need a small bridge to cross it, although fishing boots will suffice most of the time. Navigable by watercraft it is usually not, and it has no waterfalls or rapids. It typicaly runs out into a real river or a lake, and it rarely has a name. If this makes it sound like a creek, then go for it. If there is a term among the beck/bourne/brook/burn/nant/stream/syke suite that would fit perfectly, using it will only help if the reader understands it.
Richard Green Jul 14, 2012:
Go for creek, I think...possibly I think you can safely use creek. As a Brit, a creek does conjure up something typically American, although I am aware of its connotations to saltwater water courses in BrE. Otherwise, I can only suggest 'rivulet'; but I don't think that sounds very attractive. I do think you're safe with creek, however.

Proposed translations

+1
24 mins
Selected

stream/brook

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=on the edge of Jotunheimen&...

I would avoid "creek". It means something else to us Brits.
I am from Scotland, and we don't use the word "creek" to describe inland rivers/brooks/streams

In fact we call them "burns"!
Note from asker:
Yes, I've dipped my toe already in the beck/bourne/brook/burn/nant/stream/syke waters. (And aren't things already complicated enough, without reference to a list that includes a citation from a .se domain? ;-) )
Peer comment(s):
agree brigidm : But perhaps "brook" conveys the comparative smallness in size which I think you're looking for.
1 day 10 hrs
Thank you!
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks. I took "stream"."

Reference comments

11 mins
Reference:

Reports of cases argued and determined in the Court of King's ... - Google Books Result
books.google.co.uk/books?id=liUEAAAAQAAJ...1816
... divers large quantities of water from and out of the brooks, streams, or rivulets found and being within 20co yards of the canal, called or known by the name of ...

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Note added at 12 mins (2012-07-14 18:53:54 GMT)
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creek

is normally associated with mud:)

see Fareham creek

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/5106648

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Note added at 13 mins (2012-07-14 18:55:02 GMT)
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i.e.

creek

is tidal

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2012-07-14 19:01:27 GMT)
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http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-river-an...


A river is said to be a natural body of water that leads to an ocean or sea. On the contrary a creek is understood differently by different cultures. In British English creek means a narrow inlet of the sea, probably a sunken river valley. In Australia a creek means almost a river. It is interesting to note that a creek is called by other names such as a brook and a stream too in British English.
Geographers believe that although a creek is smaller than a river, there are some creeks that are considerably larger and longer than some rivers. In fact they are described as stronger than some rivers too. There are some large creeks and small rivers in the United States of America for that matter.
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