William Hepner Dec 2, 2022:

@ Adoración Thanks for the clarification, and I don't disagree with you, though I find that I'm not convinced enough to go either way with any certainty.

Adoración Bodoque Martínez Dec 2, 2022:

@William Hi William,
I do not understand 'presencia terrenal' as something spiritual at all. What I tried to say is that 'terrenal' (from Earth) does not carry any connotations about the type of life it may be, whereas 'earthly' does. So, I felt it would be best to avoid translating it in such a way that would probably confuse the reader, as 'presencia terrenal' just means 'presence on Earth' and has nothing to do with what type of 'existence' that 'presence' may lead to.

William Hepner Dec 2, 2022:

I certainly agree with your understanding of "presencia terrenal" as something more spiritual than material, but I find it difficult to understand how it can be completely spiritual, with no material connotations, with a word like "terrenal", whose meaning according to RAE is: "Perteneciente o relativo a la tierra, en contraposición a lo que pertenece al cielo."

That is, I don't doubt that it's spiritual, but is it only spiritual? With that said, I think my translation is basically more material than spiritual, and yours more spiritual than material. So the final question is whether we should understand "presencia terrenal" as emphasizing the spiritual over the material or vice versa. The truth is that I'm leaning toward your answer, since I think it shows a greater balance of the spiritual and material.

Adoración Bodoque Martínez Dec 2, 2022:

'Earthly' or 'on Earth'? I have been thinking about the meaning of 'terrenal' and the meaning of 'earthly' and I have come to the conclusion that it might be best to avoid saying 'earthly' altogether, even more so when followed by 'existence'. To me, 'earthly existence' has connotations of a life that is not spiritual, but material. I really do not think that is what is meant by 'la presencia terrenal'.

I know Collins bilingual dictionary translates 'terrenal' as 'earthly', but when you look for the translation of 'earthly' into Spanish instead, it also comes up with 'mundano', which has very different connotations.

And this is how its English monolingual dictionary defines 'earthly':
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/earthly
"Earthly means happening in the material world of our life on Earth and not in any spiritual life or life after death."

And this is how DLE defines 'terrenal':
https://dle.rae.es/terrenal
1. adj. Perteneciente o relativo a la tierra, en contraposición a lo que pertenece al cielo.

Adoración Bodoque Martínez Dec 1, 2022:

@Domini I may not be able to give you a convincing argument right now, but I am convinced that nobody would say la "presencia terrenal" when they mean "la presencia de la Tierra". Plus, the latter would be much more likely to be found in a scientific text, not a philosophical one.

Domini Lucas (asker) Dec 1, 2022:

@Adoracion which is what I did when I read "the earthly presence" and then changed it. However, gratuito y absoluto seem a little odd to me combined with "our earthly presence", esp in English. But you are the native Spanish speaker, so perhaps it just is, or I need to twist the sentence a bit (but for time!). Thank you again. :-)

Adoración Bodoque Martínez Dec 1, 2022:

@Domini I personally think that would be confusing. The reader would probably ask themselves, 'the presence of what?'.

Domini Lucas (asker) Dec 1, 2022:

our/the Maybe if I stick with the original "the" it would leave it more open? Providing I don't have to capitalise Earth a second time ...

Carol Gullidge Dec 1, 2022:

@Domini I see your dilemma - to me it doesn’t make total sense. But I also feel that “the presence of the Earth” preceding “se vive como…” seems a bit of a non-sequitur.

Domini Lucas (asker) Dec 1, 2022:

@Andrew Bramhall Thank you. Tiredness I think. Sometimes you can look at something too long... It was supposed to be a revision and has turned out to br more complex than I anticipated with hours of research. :-)

Andrew Bramhall Dec 1, 2022:

"Our earthly presence" ...sounds absolutely fine to me, and the best option; don't understand your doubts!

Domini Lucas (asker) Dec 1, 2022:

@Carol Sorry, Carol. You're so right. I've been at this for two weeks and on final stretch and brain dead! I think now it's "The presence of the Earth" but for some reason in a previous draft I had put "our earthly presence". No idea why as it doesn't look right to me know.

Carol Gullidge Dec 1, 2022:

So, what was your original …thought?
To save duplication (most of us are pretty busy!), it might help if we knew what you’ve already considered, and why you’re dubious…