Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
façade (maritime)
English translation:
maritime range
Added to glossary by
LouiseNorman (X)
Nov 19, 2018 13:46
5 yrs ago
8 viewers *
French term
Israel
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façade
French to English
Science
Other
Oceanography
"Demandes annuelles sur les navires côtiers de façade par façades en nombre de jours et pourcentage etc."
This is a study on requirements related to coastal (and other) vessels of the French oceanographic fleet, broken down by vessel type and operational venue. It is quite clear that "navires côtiers de façade par façades" means "coastal vessels broken down according to geographical operating area". The problem is translating this to avoid the pleonasm.
Thank you!
This is a study on requirements related to coastal (and other) vessels of the French oceanographic fleet, broken down by vessel type and operational venue. It is quite clear that "navires côtiers de façade par façades" means "coastal vessels broken down according to geographical operating area". The problem is translating this to avoid the pleonasm.
Thank you!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | maritime range |
LouiseNorman (X)
|
| 4 +2 | seafront / coastline / seaboard |
B D Finch
|
| 3 | seaboard |
Tony M
|
References
| What does facade mean? |
SafeTex
|
Change log
Nov 20, 2018 16:06: LouiseNorman (X) Created KOG entry
Nov 20, 2018 16:12: LouiseNorman (X) changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2300761">LouiseNorman (X)'s</a> old entry - "façade maritime "" to ""maritime range""
Nov 20, 2018 16:32: LouiseNorman (X) changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2300761">LouiseNorman (X)'s</a> old entry - "façade maritime "" to ""maritime range""
Nov 20, 2018 16:51: LouiseNorman (X) changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2300761">LouiseNorman (X)'s</a> old entry - "façade "" to ""maritime range""
Proposed translations
+2
8 hrs
French term (edited):
façade maritime
Selected
maritime range
-
Les ports européens se répartissent en six façades :
* Nord-Europe :
* Ouest-Méditerranée ;
* îles Britanniques ;
* Est-Méditerranée ;
* Baltique ;
* Atlantique.
MAP OF MAJOR MARITIME RANGES
14. Northern Europe
15. Western Mediterranean
11. British Iles
16. Eastern Mediterranean
13. Baltic
12. Europe Atlantique
How about translating "navires côtiers de façade par façades" to "coastal vessels by maritime range"?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2018-11-20 09:18:55 GMT)
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On a webpage regarding the French fleet of ocean vessels <https://mediathequedelamer.com/thematique/enjeux-de-loceanog... coastal vessels are referred to as "navires côtiers (ou de façade)", meaning that a "navire côtier" can also be called a "navire de façade".
In the asker's context, "Demandes annuelles sur les navires côtiers de façade par façades en nombre de jours et pourcentage", I suspect the use of both "côtiers" and "de facade" was unintentional on the French author's part.
If this were my assignment, I'd point out the redundancy to the client and see what they have to say.
My guess is that having noticed the unfortunate juxtaposition of the word "façade" in "navires de façade par façades", the author decided to use "navires côtiers par facades" instead and inadvertently left in the term "de façade".
Therefore, I would keep "NAVIRES CÔTIERS" => "COASTAL VESSELS"
and "PAR FAÇADES" => "BY (MARITIME) RANGE"
Les ports européens se répartissent en six façades :
* Nord-Europe :
* Ouest-Méditerranée ;
* îles Britanniques ;
* Est-Méditerranée ;
* Baltique ;
* Atlantique.
MAP OF MAJOR MARITIME RANGES
14. Northern Europe
15. Western Mediterranean
11. British Iles
16. Eastern Mediterranean
13. Baltic
12. Europe Atlantique
How about translating "navires côtiers de façade par façades" to "coastal vessels by maritime range"?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2018-11-20 09:18:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
On a webpage regarding the French fleet of ocean vessels <https://mediathequedelamer.com/thematique/enjeux-de-loceanog... coastal vessels are referred to as "navires côtiers (ou de façade)", meaning that a "navire côtier" can also be called a "navire de façade".
In the asker's context, "Demandes annuelles sur les navires côtiers de façade par façades en nombre de jours et pourcentage", I suspect the use of both "côtiers" and "de facade" was unintentional on the French author's part.
If this were my assignment, I'd point out the redundancy to the client and see what they have to say.
My guess is that having noticed the unfortunate juxtaposition of the word "façade" in "navires de façade par façades", the author decided to use "navires côtiers par facades" instead and inadvertently left in the term "de façade".
Therefore, I would keep "NAVIRES CÔTIERS" => "COASTAL VESSELS"
and "PAR FAÇADES" => "BY (MARITIME) RANGE"
Note from asker:
| Thanks, Louise! I suspect the use of both "côtiers" and "de facade" was intentional and it meant: "coastal vessels used for maritime range missions" |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
: aussi
5 hrs
|
| neutral |
Tony M
: Although this works in the specific context you quote, I don't believe it would fit satisfactorily in Asker's specific context.
9 hrs
|
|
Why not?
|
|
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: Yes, and by using 'coastal vessels' you are referencing what type of maritime range is included
16 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
2 hrs
seafront / coastline / seaboard
www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201210/02/P201210020107.htm
Oct 2, 2012 - A vessel collision incident involving two passenger vessels occurred at the seafront of Lamma Island last night (October 1).
https://www.plymouth.ac.uk/.../Mapping_of_Exmouth_Seafront_o...
WATER SURVEY VESSEL AND SINGLE BEAM ECHO SOUNDER. Location: Exmouth ... Single beam bathymetric survey for 400m section of seafront.
https://books.google.fr/books?isbn=9251054991
Cassandra De Young, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations - 2006 - Nature
vessel owners and assigning areas of operation.24 Under this system of Union ... The eastern seaboard counts for 55 percent of the total number of fishing vessels, while ...
https://www.gov.uk › Defence and armed forces › International defence commitments
May 20, 2010 - A number of Royal Navy vessels are currently deployed to the eastern seaboard of the USA as part of the AURIGA multinational Naval Task ...
Oct 2, 2012 - A vessel collision incident involving two passenger vessels occurred at the seafront of Lamma Island last night (October 1).
https://www.plymouth.ac.uk/.../Mapping_of_Exmouth_Seafront_o...
WATER SURVEY VESSEL AND SINGLE BEAM ECHO SOUNDER. Location: Exmouth ... Single beam bathymetric survey for 400m section of seafront.
https://books.google.fr/books?isbn=9251054991
Cassandra De Young, Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations - 2006 - Nature
vessel owners and assigning areas of operation.24 Under this system of Union ... The eastern seaboard counts for 55 percent of the total number of fishing vessels, while ...
https://www.gov.uk › Defence and armed forces › International defence commitments
May 20, 2010 - A number of Royal Navy vessels are currently deployed to the eastern seaboard of the USA as part of the AURIGA multinational Naval Task ...
Note from asker:
| Thanks! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
11 hrs
|
|
Thanks Gilou
|
|
| agree |
Tony M
: I would agree with 'seaboard', but not so much with the other two.
15 hrs
|
|
Thanks Tony. "Seafront" does make me think of hotels and ice cream. However, I think the second reference above shows that it relates to the wet side too.
|
18 hrs
seaboard
Perhaps they simply mean 'coastal vessels operating along a certain stretch of the coast, broken down by geographical section' etc. I'm thinking of 'façade atlantique' etc.
Given that these are possibly being contrasted with, say, 'ocean-going vessels', maybe you could use 'inshore' for 'côtier', thereby leaving yourself a freer choice for the rest?
The following comments were added by a well-wisher:
The opposition with "hauturier" here SEEMS to make your point about "inshore".
www.dirm.nord-atlantique-manche-ouest.developpement-durable...
On y accède en général en navire côtier de façade ou hauturier. (navire des stations marines, GENAVIR, navires d'opportunité, etc.). Il est particulièrement...
That said, however, if "hauturier" is "high seas", what might the difference between "de façade"
and "côtier" be ?
[For info:
Basique Jusqu’à 2 milles d’un abri
Côtier Jusqu’à 6 milles d’un abri
Semi-hauturier Entre 6 et 60 milles d’un abri*
Hauturier Au-delà de 60 milles d’un abri
http://avironfrance.fr/medias/downloads/ministere-dgitm-equi...
]
Since there is reference on the web to "navire de façade atlantique" and "navire de façade méditerranéenne", it would seem that "de façade" is not in opposition to "hauturier" but simply an
indication of location. Therefore it is "côtier" that means "inshore". Maybe an "Atlantic seaboard inshore vessel" is designed to sail in rougher waters than a "Mediterranean seaboard inshore vessel". There might be a category of "inshore vessels" that are not "seaboard specific".
I therefore understand "par façades" to apply to "demandes annuelles", so "Demandes annuelles sur les navires côtiers de façade par façades" comes to "demand, per seaboard, for
seaboard-specific inshore vessels"
- - -
I think that helps make the distinction better.
And FYI, 'inshore' and 'coastal' are not exact synonyms — 'inshore' emphasizes the 'closeness to land' aspect (see the definitions above), whereas 'coastal' tends to emphasize the 'along the coast' aspect.
For example, we can talk about 'coastal erosion' and 'inshore lifeboats', in which contexts the terms would not be interchangeable!
Given that these are possibly being contrasted with, say, 'ocean-going vessels', maybe you could use 'inshore' for 'côtier', thereby leaving yourself a freer choice for the rest?
The following comments were added by a well-wisher:
The opposition with "hauturier" here SEEMS to make your point about "inshore".
www.dirm.nord-atlantique-manche-ouest.developpement-durable...
On y accède en général en navire côtier de façade ou hauturier. (navire des stations marines, GENAVIR, navires d'opportunité, etc.). Il est particulièrement...
That said, however, if "hauturier" is "high seas", what might the difference between "de façade"
and "côtier" be ?
[For info:
Basique Jusqu’à 2 milles d’un abri
Côtier Jusqu’à 6 milles d’un abri
Semi-hauturier Entre 6 et 60 milles d’un abri*
Hauturier Au-delà de 60 milles d’un abri
http://avironfrance.fr/medias/downloads/ministere-dgitm-equi...
]
Since there is reference on the web to "navire de façade atlantique" and "navire de façade méditerranéenne", it would seem that "de façade" is not in opposition to "hauturier" but simply an
indication of location. Therefore it is "côtier" that means "inshore". Maybe an "Atlantic seaboard inshore vessel" is designed to sail in rougher waters than a "Mediterranean seaboard inshore vessel". There might be a category of "inshore vessels" that are not "seaboard specific".
I therefore understand "par façades" to apply to "demandes annuelles", so "Demandes annuelles sur les navires côtiers de façade par façades" comes to "demand, per seaboard, for
seaboard-specific inshore vessels"
- - -
I think that helps make the distinction better.
And FYI, 'inshore' and 'coastal' are not exact synonyms — 'inshore' emphasizes the 'closeness to land' aspect (see the definitions above), whereas 'coastal' tends to emphasize the 'along the coast' aspect.
For example, we can talk about 'coastal erosion' and 'inshore lifeboats', in which contexts the terms would not be interchangeable!
Note from asker:
| Thanks! |
Reference comments
39 mins
Reference:
What does facade mean?
Une façade maritime désigne un groupe d'infrastructures portuaires alignées le long d'un littoral, desservant un territoire terrestre économiquement très développé, permettant à ce dernier d'échanger avec les autres territoires et le grand large. Les principales façades maritimes structurent le commerce mondial de marchandises.
Therefore, my initial take on this is that the ship has a home port with its extended facilities but can go to other costal ports and use those facilities too
Therefore, my initial take on this is that the ship has a home port with its extended facilities but can go to other costal ports and use those facilities too
Discussion
Thank you for this suggestion!
Getting the meaning right is the priority number one, two and three - "niceties" of style? like not repeating a term? Distort the meaning to accommodate that kind or rules? Not in my rule-book, and I for sure wouldn't want anywhere near me someone who would translate a contract (or any document requesting precision) for me following THAT kind of priorities ...
As for this text:
you can find what are "navires côtiers" (defined by opposition to "de haute-mer") but not much about a subcategory that would be called "navires côtiers de façade" just about 10 ghits ...Could it simply be all the "navires côtiers" operating along a given "façade"?
BTW "façade" covers quite a lot, you can find samples of "façade méditerranéenne" / "façade atlantique" / "façade Nord Atlantique" ...
http://www.cnrs.fr/CNRS-Hebdo/bretagne-paysdeloire/actus.php...
and variations - CNRS seem to be the only ones using the term "navires côtiers de façade"
'navires côtiers' means 'coastal-type vessels' — for which 'inshore' is after all a better translation.
'de façade', however, means 'working along a stretch of coastline' — it's what they are being used for; obviously, it might be conceivable to use ocean-going vessels for inshore purposes (subject to draught!), and equally possible (but inadvisable!) to use inshore vessels for deep-sea work; that is the kind of distinction being implied here.