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hecho arqueológico
relaciones de causas de fe

Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

argumento de fuerza

English translation:

to lay down the law

Added to glossary by Justin Peterson
Sep 4, 2018 16:05
5 yrs ago
6 viewers *
Spanish term

argumento de fuerza

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law (general)
"Las autoridades alegaron diversos pretextos o simplemente utilizaron "argumentos de fuerza", denunció la CCDHRN."

This has got to have a standard English translation...
Proposed translations (English)
3 to lay down the law
4 +2 "a fortiori" argument
3 +3 authoritarian/dogmantic argument
4 Forceful arguments
4 went ahead
3 brute force "rationale"/the "reasoning" of the law of the strongest/"argument" of the most powerful
3 steamrolled an argument
References
Context

Discussion

Sofia Bengoa Sep 5, 2018:
About the length of translations Translations should not be measured by the number of words but by the meaning they convey, in my opinion.
Sandro Tomasi Sep 5, 2018:
This entry is very interesting because normally one could translate argumento de fuerza as strong or convincing argument, but this is not the case here. While it may be that this is happening under an authoritarian government, it may be too much to translate the term as authoritarian argument, or something similar on that side of the spectrum.

Perhaps oppressive argument if we take into consideration the following:

Merriam-Webster
oppressive
1 : unreasonably burdensome or severe
- oppressive legislation
- oppressive taxes
- the oppressive power of corporations and Wall Street —Jim Hightower

2 : tyrannical
- an oppressive government

3 : overwhelming or depressing to the spirit or senses
- an oppressive climate
- the dusty drabness that was oppressive in its uneventfulness —Geoffrey Moorhouse

In this case, oppresive argument would stem from the first sense but, at the same time, preserve some of the connotational elements that stem from the second and third senses.
Steven Huddleston Sep 4, 2018:
Then perhaps Maybe "dismissive arguments" is more appropriate to the context.
Rebecca Jowers Sep 4, 2018:
@Justin I agree that "a fortiori" argument may not fit your context!
Justin Peterson (asker) Sep 4, 2018:
Thanks! Rebecca, you're totally right. I was getting caught up on the legalese when what I really needed was a good idiom like "dismiss out of hand", which I went with
Rebecca Jowers Sep 4, 2018:
Hi, Justin Fair enough, but since you said that “it seems there is no standard translation of this in legalese,” I thought I might offer one!
Justin Peterson (asker) Sep 4, 2018:
Complicating It Perhaps I was complicating my work. A precise legal translation, it seems, is not really in order. The idea, I think, is "dismiss out of hand" or "ignore", etc. In any case, thanks
Justin Peterson (asker) Sep 4, 2018:
Rebecca Jowers Thanks. Hmm. While that may the proper legal term, I think Phil has got the translation right. We are talking about a non-democratic regime of thugs who are, it seems, simply dismissing arguments, not seeking precise legal ones to counter them.
Justin Peterson (asker) Sep 4, 2018:
Phil Goddard Yes, that is certainly the idea, but ... is there no standard translation of this in legalese? It seems there is not.

Proposed translations

1 day 9 hrs
Selected

to lay down the law

This might work in context

lay down the law
phrase of law
issue instructions to other people in an authoritative or dogmatic way.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This is the idea, in this case"
3 mins

Forceful arguments

Sic. Common American English usage.
Peer comment(s):
neutral philgoddard : I don't think this is the meaning, though it's not your fault as there was almost no context.
10 mins
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+2
28 mins

"a fortiori" argument

As used in legal contexts, “argumento de fuerza” is perhaps more than just a “forceful argument.” As you will see from the texts copied below, “argumento de fuerza,” (in Latin “argumentum a fortiori”) is called “a fortiori argument” in English.


Argumento de fuerza: “con mayor razón”: argumento por el cual se extiende una disposición legal a hipótesis que ella no ha previsto y en las cuales el motivo al que ha legislado se encuentra en un grado mas alto que en la que ha enunciado formalmente. Se llama también “argumentum a fortiori” y tiene dos variantes: “ad maiore ad minus” (quien puede lo mas puede lo menos) y “ad minoris ad maius” (aquello que no puede lo menos, tampoco podrá lo mas).
https://www.monografias.com/trabajos89/argumentacionjuridica...

A fortiori argument means an argument from a strong source. This term is derived from the Latin legal maxim “argumentum a fortiori.” A fortiori argument is applied by following the logic that a point to be proved is followed from a stronger claim. This principle is applied in situations where:
1. a proposition previously given or proven in the argument contains and implies a variety of "weaker" or less contentful materials ; and
2. a proposition being proven is only one of the propositions contained and implied.
There are mainly two types of a fortiori argument. They are:
1. a maiore ad minus, that means from greater to smaller; and
2. a minore ad maius, that means from smaller to greater.
https://definitions.uslegal.com/a/a-fortiori-argument/

Peer comment(s):
agree Robert Forstag : It seems likely that the term would indeed have this specific meaning, especially since it would be unusual to express the idea of “forceful/strong/convincing argument” in this way.
6 mins
Thanks, Robert. This is the "legalese" term, but it may not fit in the context of Justin's text.
disagree philgoddard : You make this sound like some kind of civilised philosophical discourse. It's not - it's government oppression.
17 mins
Thanks, Phil. Justin asked whether there was a leglese equivalent and that's what I provided. Whether it fits the context is another matter.
agree MPGS : :-)
1 hr
Thanks, MPGS
neutral AllegroTrans : As others have said, this is OK for a legal text/pleading etc. but not here
1 hr
Thanks, but as I've said several times here and above, I provided this translation because Justin asked for the "legalese" expression
agree Yvonne Gallagher : yep, in legalese as seemed to be the question at first
8 hrs
Thanks, Yvonne
neutral JohnMcDove : While it is great to get this data, in the context, it seems to be "the argument of the guy(s) who have the power and dominance by force of arms, violence, oppression, you name it...
8 hrs
Thanks. As I've repeated several times here and above, I provided this translation because the asker asked for the legalese equivalent.
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+3
33 mins

authoritarian/dogmantic argument

I understand they give their dictates as arguments.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : I'm not sure "argument" is appropriate, since there doesn't appear to be any dialogue involved. I think the word is being used ironically. Maybe "stance" or "response".
10 mins
agree AllegroTrans : dogmatic not dogmantic
1 hr
agree JohnMcDove : Maybe, authoritarian "arguments", with quotation marks for "arguments" (There is no such thing as an "argument", but brute force...)
8 hrs
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9 hrs

brute force "rationale"/the "reasoning" of the law of the strongest/"argument" of the most powerful

Some other ideas.
The "reasoning" of the power...

The rationale of whoever is the strongest...

The "reasons" supported by power and force...


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Note added at 9 hrs (2018-09-05 01:12:22 GMT)
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Also, it could be something "the rule of force-power-dominance"

As we have the established expression "the rule of law" a variation such as "the rule of the strongest" "the rule of tyrant" or "the arguments of sheer force" or some such, might work in the context.
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9 hrs

went ahead

"simply went ahead" is the idea in this context and register
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12 hrs

steamrolled an argument

.... or a decision. It seems to fit the context. Hope it helps.

https://socenv.org.uk/blogpost/1617513/291429/BEIS-Brexit-an...

The Gun Control Laws--Portents of Tyranny - Karen Selick
www.karenselick.com/FI9503.html
Their arguments are usually just steamrolled over with the patently false rejoinder that the police can handle this sort of thing, or the irrelevant observation that ...
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Reference comments

12 mins
Reference:

Context

It's the final paragraph of the page. I think the idea is "put their foot down".
http://www.diariodecuba.com/derechos-humanos/1535997430_4163...
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