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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

household features

French translation:

points forts de l'entreprise

Added to glossary by Didier Fourcot
Nov 30, 2016 09:46
7 yrs ago
4 viewers *
English term

household features

English to French Other Other Texte publicitaire
Technology, innovation, excellence, know-how and skilled expertise are household features delivered in every project.
Proposed translations (French)
4 +1 des points forts de l'entreprise
4 +2 caractéristiques courantes
4 +1 de rigueur
3 +2 caractéristiques typiques
4 +1 caractéristiques de la maison
2 +1 chacune de nos réalisations est caractérisée...
References
Household comme Adjectif
Change log

Dec 5, 2016 08:32: Didier Fourcot Created KOG entry

Discussion

Tony M Dec 1, 2016:
@ Debora Yes, but as I said, I have this niggling doubt that it just sort of misses the mark, and is a little awkward used like this.

Let's bear in mind the underlying meaning of 'de rigueur', which is basically sort of 'required / obligatory' — using it in EN, we might say that "For a formal function, a dinner-jacket is de rigueur".
Here, we are in a situation where it is a company addressing its customers. If this were a CUSTOMER addressing a prospective supplier, I could certainly see them saying (again, I'll do it in EN, just to highlight the point): "The greatest thoroughness and confidentiality are de rigueur in all the work you will be doing for us." But IMHO, it works a lot less well when the boot is on the other foot...

And in EN at least, I'm not entirely sure if the register really fits terribly well; but I'm prepared to accept this might not be a problem as we're looking to use it in FR here.
Debora Blake Dec 1, 2016:
Just adding my two centimes... Given all the banter surrounding "household as adjective", and given that we know the client's intent, my "de rigueur" (posted well before the discussion heated up) translates the concept the client wants to get across, namely that the list of things mentioned is mandatory elements of all projects, aka SOP (standard operating procedure). "De rigueur" is a way to solve this problem simply and elegantly, even though no one seems to like it.
B D Finch Dec 1, 2016:
All over the situation! MultiPro might like to contemplate the above phrase, which would have been an apt description of their arguments, had I not used the wrong word for "place" in that particular phrase.

Also consider that KudoZ has many functions:
1. Translators helping each other with the translation of difficult terms;
2. A forum for the exchange of ideas, skills and competence;
3. A showcase where fellow translators and potential clients can see translators display either their professionalism OR how silly they can be.
Tony M Dec 1, 2016:
Not an assumption, a fact It is simply a fact of English usage that the meaning of the word 'household' cannot just be stretched in order to shoe-horn it into meaning just any old thing — except perhaps in the context of pure poetry!

I have tried to indicate with my mention of 'ménager' just how ridiculous 'household' sounds when used incorrectly like this; if we follow your logic to the extreme, we would allow someone to say "I take my sideboard for a walk every morning", firm in our conviction that they intended 'sideboard' to mean 'dog'.

Let's say we wanted to translate 'features' as 'caractéristiques' — which seems to me a perfectly reasonable step in some circumstances. So would anyone in their right minds say that these admirable qualities are 'des caractéristiques ménagers de nos projets'?! — I hope I'm right in saying that our FR colleagues would immediately see this as absurd?
Premium✍️ Dec 1, 2016:
Assumptions... Pourquoi assumer que l'emploi de "household" est une erreur ?? Il existe bien le concept de *choix de mots*. L'auteur l'a choisi. Soit ! Il nous incombe donc de traduire le texte en tenant bien sûr compte de toutes les possibilités sans pour autant dénigrer l'auteur ni toujours et sans cesse questionner ses capacités et connaissances linguistiques... Je ne chercherai pas midi à 14 heures ici et je ne continuerai pas de me tirer les cheveux en quatre... Je maintiens pour la dernière fois que 'household features' dans cette bribe de phrase peut se traduire par COURANTES ou TYPIQUES... J'ai un gros boulot qui m'attend... Je ne reviendrai pas ici juste pour avoir le dernier mot surtout que le point final à la discussion est nettement clair et c'est la définition de "household" comme adjectif qui l'emporte...
Tony M Dec 1, 2016:
cont. I do not dispute the possibility that the general sense, as suggested by the word used in error, could be that of 'courant' etc. — I'm sure no-one would reject that as a possible translation of the source word used, albeit with qualification as to under which circumstances it can be interpreted with that meaning; however, I do most vehemently dispute the fact that that word was correctly chosen in the first place!

I think I have sufficiently explained my reasoning on that point, and provided an example that ought to help our FR-speaking colleagues get a more subtle 'feel' for the ways this word can (and cannot!) be used in EN.
Tony M Dec 1, 2016:
@ MultiPro Il existe en anglais l'expression 'GIGO', qui veut dire 'garbage in, garbage out' — and that's exactly the reason why translators have a DUTY to keep their eyes and minds open about the quality and accuracy of source texts: to ensure that we have a proper understanding of the author's intention; sometimes, it is difficult, as we must guard against over-interpreting on the basis of what we think they wanted to say. One of the ways it is possible to decide is to study their overall use of language, and whether that is extremely precise, or rather 'loose'.

In this particular instance, we are lucky, as Asker has a definitive statement from the customer as to what their intended meaning was, which is to some extent at odds with their use of the EN language. So are we going to perversely translate what they actually wrote, without paying heed to what they themselves say they wanted to write?
Premium✍️ Dec 1, 2016:
Translators TRANSLATE... Je pense qu'au lieu de remettre en question constamment la langue maternelle d'un auteur, un traducteur doit se baser sur le contexte fourni sans aucun préjudice de langue ou de pays d'origine de l'auteur. En tant que traducteurs, nous nous limitons à traduire sans faire perpétuellement procès d'intention ou d'habiletés linguistiques de l'auteur... MA référence est très éloquente et pertinent. Elle justifie sans ambages l'usage de "household" comme adjectif. Et en tant que tel, la proposition de Marcombes : *COURANTES* et d'ANA *TYPIQUES* sont tout à fait CORRECTES.
Tony M Nov 30, 2016:
'Household' in FR To try and get away from an overly-simplistic reading of elementary dictionary entries for this term with all its hidden depths, try thinking of its real closest equivalent term in FR, 'ménager / ménagère'. I don't believe any of our FR-speaking colleagues would seriously suggest that this word could be used in this sort of business context here in FR — yet that's exactly what some people are suggesting in their insistence that this term is correctly used in the source text.

If you want to try and work in the notion of 'courant' (which I believe is by far the weakest sense here), then perhaps one might say that all these features are 'monnaie courante' in our projects?
Tony M Nov 30, 2016:
Companies called 'house' There are plenty of examples of companies that either refer to themseleves as a house, or even use it in the name of their company: 'House of Fraser' is one that immediately springs to mind. The term is often used for things like fashion houses, or producers of fine chocolates, champagne, luxury foods, or other luxury goods. Also banking and finance in general.

However, it might be argued that the term sits less comfortably with what might be regarded as 'traditional' 'heavy' industries — I find it a little hard to imagine it applied to a company that makes railway locomotives, or to imagine Harland & Woolf described as a 'shipbuilding house'

All of which only serves to confirm in my mind that the original writer didn't really understand the full significance of what they were saying, as any native speaker immediately would have done, of course.
Tony M Nov 30, 2016:
@ MultiPro Sadly, I'm afraid there very much is, as outlined first by BDF and added to by me here in the discussion area. The writer of this text certainly appears not to be a native speaker of EN, if nothing else, on the strength of this incorrect usage of 'household' — which only means 'everyday, ordinary, usual' when used in some kind of domestic context: household chores / household soap / household bleach, a household name, head of the household — where the connotation of 'everyday' etc. comes purely from the fact it is used every day in the home; hence why it cannot be used with that same connotation in a business / corporate context (other than in certain VERY specific and narrow situations).

In any case, the general tone of this text, coupled with the customer's explanation of their intended meaning here, as relayed by Asker, does not point to that meaning; it seems that what the company is actually trying to say is that "these things are a by-word in our house" — which would be fine if they stopped at 'house', as BDF says... as long as it is the sort of company that can legitimately be considered as a 'house.
[cont.]
Premium✍️ Nov 30, 2016:
Rien de mal Rien de mal dans la formulation.
Employé comme adjectif, "household" signifie 'courant'/'familier', comme l'ont suggéré Marcombes et Ana.
Tony M Nov 30, 2016:
@ Asker I'm guessing that your customer is not a native speaker of EN!

You explain clearly below what the phrase is supposed to mean — but in that case, the word 'household' is simply WRONG!

Your customer is probably thinking of expressions like 'a household name' — but the word can't be then transposed into a sentence like you have here.
Similarly, they may be referring to it's being the motto of their firm or 'house' — but again, you can't go from there to 'household'!
Nathalie Scabers (asker) Nov 30, 2016:
Merci Chakib!
Chakib Roula Nov 30, 2016:
Je pense au suivant:
Les traits caractéristiques /distinguables de nos services dans chaque projet.
Nathalie Scabers (asker) Nov 30, 2016:
Hello Chakib, Idon't have much more. It is just a phrase my customer asked me to translate for a company that produces injection moulds. They want to say that technology, innovation etc is always part of their service. Take a look at my suggestion. I will also be pleased to look at your idea. Thanks
Nathalie Scabers (asker) Nov 30, 2016:
Je pense à:
La technologie, l'innovation, l'excellence, le savoir-faire et l'expertise font partie intégrante de notre service dans chaque projet.
Chakib Roula Nov 30, 2016:
I humbly do have an idea but need more context to shed more light.
Thanks

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
Selected

des points forts de l'entreprise

Dans un style un peu suranné selon l'ancienneté de l'entreprise on pourrait dire "des points forts de la maison" pour rappeler le "household" mais c'est ce que je comprends: "features" c'est des caractéristiques, des traits remarquables, et "household" c'est le foyer, le lieu d'exercice, la maison...
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Yes, that's what it means, but "household" (for why that's wrong, see my reply to Marcombes) implies that this is integral to the company's in-house culture.
1 hr
agree Tony M : Although I can only echo BDF's comment, I think this is probably the best solution we have so far, and probably closest to the writer's intention. This is a marketing text, vaunting the praises of the company.
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+1
45 mins

de rigueur

My suggestion:

...sont de rigueur et font partie de chacun de nos projets.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : While it might also be true to say this, it is a bit skewed, really, from what the customer seems to be seeking to say.
10 hrs
agree Premium✍️ : J'avais seulement vu votre traduction et pas la phrase... En contexte, OUI, mais il faudrait remanier la phrase 'sont de rigueur' ou 'la caractéristique essentielle' ou caractérisent tous nos projets.
1 day 10 hrs
Merci ! Oui, je sais. C'est pour ça que j'ai mis "..." pour indiquer la liste des choses avant "sont de rigueur". C'est un petit remaniement qui élimine le piège d'une trad trop "mot-à-mot" ici.
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+2
42 mins
English term (edited): household features

caractéristiques courantes

courantes, d'usage courant

delivered in every project: caractéristiques courantes dans chaque projet que nous fournissons


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 heure (2016-11-30 10:50:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

des traits qui sont familiers, courants, connus de tous

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 heure (2016-11-30 10:52:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

des traits sur toutes les lèvres et que nous apportons dans chacun de nos projets
Peer comment(s):
agree Chakib Roula
2 hrs
Merci
agree Jean-Claude Gouin
3 hrs
Merci
agree Premium✍️
11 hrs
disagree Tony M : Not only can the EN source term not be used with that sense in this context, but in any case, it is not what the company seems to wish to actually express. Could you use 'ménagère' in a corporate context in FR?
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
2 hrs

caractéristiques typiques

Ou même "incontournables"
Peer comment(s):
agree Chakib Roula
45 mins
Merci, Chakib!
agree Premium✍️ : aussi.
10 hrs
Merci, MultiPro!
neutral Tony M : I think 'typiques' would be rather too weak and passive for the message the company is trying to get across here, notably with their use of the vocabulary 'features' and 'deliver'
18 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
20 hrs
English term (edited): are household features ... every project

chacune de nos réalisations est caractérisée...

I think a bit of lateral thinking is used here, to avoid creating a construction in FR that is rendered awkward by sticking too closely to the EN sentence structure, which itself is not exactly exemplary.

Given the slight skew between the use of 'project' in EN and 'projet' in FR, and since we are talking about 'projects once they are delivered', I think a more upbeat word like 'réalisation'.

I also feel that, for once, a construction with an active verb might work better in FR, compared to the weak (and virtually passive) construction used in EN: 'are a feature of'

What is the underlying meaning? "Everything we do shares these same qualities of..." or "These qualities underpin everything we do..."

In that perspective, I think re-phrasing it in FR along the lines I've suggested above conveys the same message, but in a formulation that perhaps sits more naturally in FR in this sort of register.
Peer comment(s):
agree Premium✍️ : D'accord avec l'explic. et l'élégante tournure.
14 hrs
Merci beaucoup, M/P !
Something went wrong...
+1
48 mins

caractéristiques de la maison

I think this probably reads better in French than in English, where the word "household" is rather inappropriate.

www.bayonne.fr/.../Dossier_de_presse_Journees_du_chocolat_2...
May 11, 2012 - de vitraux, sont caractéristiques de la maison Cazenave et satisfont toujours sa nouvelle comme sa fidèle clientèle. Aujourd'hui la Chocolaterie ...

www.prime-beaute.com/azzaro-pour-elle-l-incarnation.../2016
Jun 24, 2016 - Cet élément très couture est caractéristique de la maison Azzaro.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2016-11-30 12:01:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The word "household" (for why that's the wrong term and should be "house", see my reply to Marcombes below) implies that this is integral to the company's in-house culture/ethic. I think the word "maison" fulfils the same function in French.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2016-12-01 11:05:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Given that the Asker says in the discussion that this company manufactures injection moulds, they are probably not in the luxury goods market, so would not refer to themselves as a "house" or "maison" and are certainly not a household name like, say "Velcro".

So, I suggest ,b>"culture d'entreprise" would suggest the idea that "[t]echnology, innovation, excellence, know-how and skilled expertise" are delivered by this company as a matter of routine.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Marcombes (X) : "household" signifie qu'on ne parle plus que de technologie, d'expertise et qu'on n'a même plus besoin de mentionner le nom, qu'on sait qui est quoi
14 mins
As they are talking about a company and not about a group of people (like a family) residing in a single dwelling, the word "household" is wrong and the correct word is "house". "Maison" is used in French in the same way as "house" in this context.
agree Tony M : Absolutely, agree on all points, apart from a slight qualm as to what type of company this is, and hence, whether the term 'maison' can really be applied to it in FR? All depends what they make, I guess...
10 hrs
Thanks Tony. Yes, it is really best for companies producing fashion and/or luxury goods.
neutral Premium✍️ : Désolée, le terme n'a rien à voir malheureusement avec 'maison', malgré le nom. C'est plutôt dans le sens de 'typiques et courantes' comme l'ont proposé les collègues ci-dessus.
11 hrs
That would make no sense whatsoever for a company producing injection moulds. They could scarcely be a "household name"!
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Reference comments

2 days 9 hrs
Reference:

Household comme Adjectif

Voir la seconde définition à la fin en caractères gras..


Reference: Household comme Adjectif

Reference information:
1householdplay
noun house·hold ˈhau̇s-ˌhōld, ˈhau̇-ˌsōld
Popularity: Top 30% of words
Examples: household in a sentence





Definition of household
: those who dwell under the same roof and compose a family; also : a social unit composed of those living together in the same dwelling
See household defined for English-language learners
See household defined for kids
See words that rhyme with household
Examples of household in a sentence
At that time, not many households had telephones.
<a household that consists of a single mom, her two kids, and her widowed mother>

14th Century
First Known Use of household
14th century
household Synonyms
Synonyms
extended family, home, house, ménage
Related Words
blood, folks, kin, kindred, kinfolk (or kinfolks), kinsfolk, kith; brood; nuclear family; clan, community
2household
adjective house·hold
Definition of household
1
: of or relating to a household : domestic <cooking and other household arts>
2
: familiar, common <a household name>
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Tony M : I don't think anyone has any doubt about this possibility — in certain limited circumstances! Dicos have their limitations, and need to be understood in context and with sensitivity, cannot be taken slavishly literally in other contexts.
6 hrs
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