| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Japanese-to-English Subtiling Rates Thread poster: Jason Franzman
|
|---|
Over 95% of the offers I'm seeing these days are minimum wage level or worse. There's one up on the Proz job board now offering $3.527 USD to $5.291 USD per minute. What a joke. I still have clients willing to pay at least triple that, but it's becoming harder and harder to expand my clientele because the focus is only on rates rather than quality/experience. Subtitling is a serious profession, but it's being relegated to a Uber-driver-level skill. There's been a lot of chatter and articles/post... See more Over 95% of the offers I'm seeing these days are minimum wage level or worse. There's one up on the Proz job board now offering $3.527 USD to $5.291 USD per minute. What a joke. I still have clients willing to pay at least triple that, but it's becoming harder and harder to expand my clientele because the focus is only on rates rather than quality/experience. Subtitling is a serious profession, but it's being relegated to a Uber-driver-level skill. There's been a lot of chatter and articles/posts on LinkedIn about the sorry state of the subtitling industry, but I'm curious to hear how the translators who frequent this forum are doing. I would love to hear your thoughts, so please share if interested! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
| You're luckier than I am | Dec 12, 2021 |
In my language pair, I was offered $1/video-minute rate to translate subtitles for every 60 minutes runtime, with deadline in 24 hours.
In case anyone doesn't know, subtitling is not easy. Especially if we were tasked to create one completely from scratch*, we're practically doing 3 jobs at once (timecoding, transcribing, and translating). On top of that, we can't just use any word as we please. We are typically under strict requirements in the form of CPL and CPS limits, among othe... See more In my language pair, I was offered $1/video-minute rate to translate subtitles for every 60 minutes runtime, with deadline in 24 hours.
In case anyone doesn't know, subtitling is not easy. Especially if we were tasked to create one completely from scratch*, we're practically doing 3 jobs at once (timecoding, transcribing, and translating). On top of that, we can't just use any word as we please. We are typically under strict requirements in the form of CPL and CPS limits, among others. So we have to be more thoughtful about our word selections.
Yet even among translation communities, including ProZ.com, sometimes I feel like we subtitlers are being treated as 2nd class (or even 3rd class) citizens. I can't say I'm surprised seeing some clients and agencies are treating us almost like slaves. But maybe I'm just being cranky.
Then again, the rates have been taking a nosedive for everyone. Doesn't matter which field you're in, it's getting more difficult to make a decent living by doing translation jobs, in general. You'll need to know where to look if you don't want to play the "race to the bottom" game. But still, the number of those who are willing to pay respectable rates is not plenty. It's not going to be enough for everyone. I blame machine translations for this.
*I've been using this phrase way too often. I need a new vocabulary.
[Edited at 2021-12-12 14:26 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jason Franzman 
United States
Local time: 11:48
Japanese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Subtitling is not easy | Dec 12, 2021 |
Novian Cahyadi wrote:
In case anyone doesn't know, subtitling is not easy. Especially if we were tasked to create one completely from scratch*, we're practically doing 3 jobs at once (timecoding, transcribing, and translating). On top of that, we can't just use any word as we please. We are typically under strict requirements in the form of CPL and CPS limits, among others.
I heartily agree with you, Novian. Thank you for sharing.
If we stick together and refuse to work for abusive rates, translation companies will be starved of labor and will have to start increasing rates. I've been translating for 30 years and know many others who have been translating that long, and every single one will tell you the same thing. Rates have been stagnating for all that time, and in many cases, they have gone down. Meanwhile, inflation is up, translation firm profits are up, their stock price is up, executive pay is up, and employee pay is up. But somehow, subcontractor pay keeps going down. This is an unsustainable business model if they want to maintain even a minimum level of quality.
There has been a lot of awareness on this issue lately. I encourage everyone to check out the following articles and become more vocal in advocating for this cause.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/great-renegotiation-renato-beninatto/
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20211104005275/en/France-Italy-Germany-and-Spain-Viewers-Stopping-Shows-at-Alarming-Rate-According-to-Entertainment-Globalization-Association-Report
https://multilingual.com/american-translators-association-calls-for-fair-localization/
https://unseenjapan.com/want-better-localization-blame-corporate-greed/
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/nov/14/where-have-all-the-translators-gone
I often post and share stuff like this on LinkedIn, so please follow me there if interested:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-franzman-b7061bb
Rather than discussing the issue here among ourselves, get out on LinkedIn and show industry figures that we are not going to be silent about the elephant in the room. We all know the rate trajectory is abusive and unsustainable. Let them know that we won't stand for it anymore.
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| That's sad, but... | Dec 12, 2021 |
The thing with Japanese to English is that it is BIG money business. Japanese subtitled content is in high demand.
70 to 100 bucks for some anime episode that'll get watched millions of times by subtitle-only consumers and probably sell boatloads of merch too is pretty wild.
Novian Cahyadi wrote:
In my language pair, I was offered $1/video-minute rate to translate subtitles for every 60 minutes runtime, with deadline in 24 hours.
In case anyone doesn't know, subtitling is not easy. Especially if we were tasked to create one completely from scratch*, we're practically doing 3 jobs at once (timecoding, transcribing, and translating). On top of that, we can't just use any word as we please. We are typically under strict requirements in the form of CPL and CPS limits, among others. So we have to be more thoughtful about our word selections.
Yet even among translation communities, including ProZ.com, sometimes I feel like we subtitlers are being treated as 2nd class (or even 3rd class) citizens. I can't say I'm surprised seeing some clients and agencies are treating us almost like slaves. But maybe I'm just being cranky.
Then again, the rates have been taking a nosedive for everyone. Doesn't matter which field you're in, it's getting more difficult to make a decent living by doing translation jobs, in general. You'll need to know where to look if you don't want to play the "race to the bottom" game. But still, the number of those who are willing to pay respectable rates is not plenty. It's not going to be enough for everyone. I blame machine translations for this.
*I've been using this phrase way too often. I need a new vocabulary.
[Edited at 2021-12-12 14:26 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Jason Franzman
United States
Local time: 11:48
Japanese to English
TOPIC STARTER | BIG money business | Dec 12, 2021 |
Adieu wrote:
The thing with Japanese to English is that it is BIG money business. Japanese subtitled content is in high demand.
70 to 100 bucks for some anime episode that'll get watched millions of times by subtitle-only consumers and probably sell boatloads of merch too is pretty wild.
That is so true, Adieu. Some of the links I posted above talk about how little is spent on the localization process, yet we freelancers are allowing content creators to greatly expand their product's reach. Considering how expensive it is to produce said content, spending a little more on localization to produce a good translation seems like a no-brainer. But greed and stupidity always get in the way.
[Edited at 2021-12-12 21:45 GMT]
[Edited at 2021-12-12 21:45 GMT]
| | | | Tony Bennjamin
Indonesia
Local time: 01:48
Member (2013)
Indonesian to English
+ ...
| Even to Indonesian | Dec 13, 2021 |
Even Indonesian subtitle either from English or Indonesian to English, we are been paid at a low rate. 1.5/minute. I want to puke for this rate. and some of the newbie are taking this low rate as their advantage to gain experience without knowing that this will hinder them to obtain higher rate.
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 14:48
Japanese to English
+ ...
| Subtitling rates | Dec 13, 2021 |
One of the posters here compared translators to Uber drivers. Really, we are no longer translators, we are lex workers.
| | | | Mr. Satan (X)
English to Indonesian
@Jason Franzman
I've been trying my best to defend my rate. But I'm not going to lie, I've lost 90% of the jobs offered to me/applying for when I stated my rate to the agencies/clients. Added to the fact that I am well aware a lot of my competitors are OK with such low rates. I'm starting to get tired of defending this all by myself, and wonder if I should just accept the reality of the translation business these days, where you'll be paid for peanuts. My morale isn't very high righ... See more @Jason Franzman
I've been trying my best to defend my rate. But I'm not going to lie, I've lost 90% of the jobs offered to me/applying for when I stated my rate to the agencies/clients. Added to the fact that I am well aware a lot of my competitors are OK with such low rates. I'm starting to get tired of defending this all by myself, and wonder if I should just accept the reality of the translation business these days, where you'll be paid for peanuts. My morale isn't very high right now, and I don't think I can continue fighting much longer.
@Adieu
That's true, but most of the anime produced are being fansubbed anyway, and their business model revolves around donations, which of course isn't going to pay you ~$1000 per month. But I don't think you can rely even on big streaming services to pay you a handsome reward, especially not from those who outsource the jobs to translation agencies.
@Tony Bennjamin
Right you are, and we both know how long some words in our native language tend to be. Complying with the CPL and CPS limits can be quite a challenge.
@Michael Newton
I prefer to call it as "lex slaves", but that's mainly because I have a tendency to use stronger diction. 
[Edited at 2021-12-13 12:01 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Jason Franzman
United States
Local time: 11:48
Japanese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Rates and Anime Fansubs | Dec 13, 2021 |
Novian, I'm in the same boat. I estimate more than 95% of the offers I get are below my average rate. I believe the only thing we can do is stick to our guns, keep working with only those clients that properly value our work, and keep pushing for better rates by posting publically and vocally here, on LinkedIn, and anywhere else that will raise awareness. I've no illusions that I can change anything, but staying silent in the face of such abusive practices ain't my style. In addition to freelanc... See more Novian, I'm in the same boat. I estimate more than 95% of the offers I get are below my average rate. I believe the only thing we can do is stick to our guns, keep working with only those clients that properly value our work, and keep pushing for better rates by posting publically and vocally here, on LinkedIn, and anywhere else that will raise awareness. I've no illusions that I can change anything, but staying silent in the face of such abusive practices ain't my style. In addition to freelancers like us, there are industry figures that actually "get it" and are spreading awareness for this issue, so please keep fighting the good fight!
Regarding, anime subbing, for Japanese-to-English at least, there is actually a market for decently paid work due to so many major streamers releasing anime titles. I do get ridiculous rate offers for anime sometimes, but since I have plenty of work in that area, I ignore them. I don't know about other language combos, but I can say this. At least two of my decent-paying clients take my English translations and have them translated into other languages, so that should be making a dent in the fansub market. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
Been there, done that. Spot on!
Michael Newton wrote:
One of the posters here compared translators to Uber drivers. Really, we are no longer translators, we are lex workers.
| | | | Tomo Olson
Canada
Local time: 14:48
Japanese to English
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think the market has changed. There are so many more people who understand and speak English/Japanese in the world now compared to 30 years ago when you started this work, and the machine translations have become much more accurate and refined as well. Anyone who has had a few years of education in the Japanese language can somewhat subtitle/translate with the help of Google Translate. Sure, the nuances and subtle meanings may be lost, but when there's a huge s... See more I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think the market has changed. There are so many more people who understand and speak English/Japanese in the world now compared to 30 years ago when you started this work, and the machine translations have become much more accurate and refined as well. Anyone who has had a few years of education in the Japanese language can somewhat subtitle/translate with the help of Google Translate. Sure, the nuances and subtle meanings may be lost, but when there's a huge supply of mediocre translators around, the demand that existed in the past isn't there anymore. And I think viewers are totally fine with mediocre translations/subtitles for the most part. (In fact, the source language could be any language other than English, but a lot of companies have their material translated into English and use that as the master file to be translated into other foreign languages. Subtle meanings are inevitably lost in this process, but this has become the standard for localizing shows in multiple languages quickly and viewers are obviously OK with it.)
For most people who work in the subtitle/translation field nowadays, subtitling is a side job. They are students, housewives with some spare time, people who have full-time jobs but want to make extra money on weekends, etc, and they don't need to make a living doing this, and they will accept lower rates. Maybe subtitling used to be a niche business and a full-time job for some people, but that era is long gone IMO. We can keep wishing those good old days will come back, but I don't think they will. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jason Franzman
United States
Local time: 11:48
Japanese to English
TOPIC STARTER | The market has changed, but quality writing has not | Dec 18, 2021 |
The market has changed, but the fact remains that quality writing hasn't. We're just getting less of it for the reasons Tomo Olson stated.
Machine translations are of nearly zero worth for anything that requires heavy localization and transcreation like subtitles. And simply knowing two languages with some Google translate support is a recipe for disaster unless one enjoys comically horrible subtitles. I've been following this issue closely, and there are plenty of articles and evid... See more The market has changed, but the fact remains that quality writing hasn't. We're just getting less of it for the reasons Tomo Olson stated.
Machine translations are of nearly zero worth for anything that requires heavy localization and transcreation like subtitles. And simply knowing two languages with some Google translate support is a recipe for disaster unless one enjoys comically horrible subtitles. I've been following this issue closely, and there are plenty of articles and evidence out there about viewers stopping shows due to horrible translations. And major translation companies are saying they are having a tough time finding quality translators. Well, if they paid more, maybe some of the more skilled translators with actual writing skills would enter the market.
I've been translating for 30 years, and there has ALWAYS been the perception that anyone who casually knows more than one language can translate. But with the internet, companies have the ability to hire those people anywhere in the world. The problem is, translation is so much more than just knowing two languages and being able to use Google translate and dictionaries. You also have to be a good writer in the target language and have intimate knowledge of the source culture. Poor to mediocre translation and writing may be acceptable in some fields, but for entertainment media, bad writing is the opposite of entertaining. It's a chore to read.
So really, the only thing that has changed is there are so many low-quality translators out there willing to work for peanuts, along with unscrupulous companies willing to hire them and pass off their work as "professional translation." After all, does anyone think Mega Translation Firm A mentions on its website that their freelancers are students, homemakers, and other part-timers just looking to make a few bucks with a side job? No! They are going to tout how they carefully screened and tested translators to choose only the best professionals!
A professional translator can still make a good living, just not as good as it used to be. We need to advocate and educate, not roll over and admit defeat. And it's in the best interest of streamers and translation firms to hire skilled, high-quality translators. People DO care about having good subtitles. No one wants to watch an entire series full of stilted, inaccurate, boring writing. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| what you need to understand | Jan 12, 2022 |
Tomo Olson wrote:
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think the market has changed. There are so many more people who understand and speak English/Japanese in the world now compared to 30 years ago when you started this work, and the machine translations have become much more accurate and refined as well. Anyone who has had a few years of education in the Japanese language can somewhat subtitle/translate with the help of Google Translate. Sure, the nuances and subtle meanings may be lost, but when there's a huge supply of mediocre translators around, the demand that existed in the past isn't there anymore. And I think viewers are totally fine with mediocre translations/subtitles for the most part. (In fact, the source language could be any language other than English, but a lot of companies have their material translated into English and use that as the master file to be translated into other foreign languages. Subtle meanings are inevitably lost in this process, but this has become the standard for localizing shows in multiple languages quickly and viewers are obviously OK with it.)
For most people who work in the subtitle/translation field nowadays, subtitling is a side job. They are students, housewives with some spare time, people who have full-time jobs but want to make extra money on weekends, etc, and they don't need to make a living doing this, and they will accept lower rates. Maybe subtitling used to be a niche business and a full-time job for some people, but that era is long gone IMO. We can keep wishing those good old days will come back, but I don't think they will.
What you need to understand, Tomo, is that the market has changed because people accept lower rates to get jobs, and would not have changed without acceptances just in order to get quick fixed. It is true, that many newbies, including those from lower paid countries, or even people who might want to hurry up finishing to do half of the quality to speed up their project portfolio, they are contributing to a higher issue not only for themselves of the future, but for the industry as a whole. You are actually encouraging that people continue the downward spiral , and you do it gladly for little money, I suppose someone thinks that a little money is better than nothing these days but it is a totally wrong mindset. One must think growth. Otherwise, you will end up together with the rest of the people who can not make a living which we could for years with translation. You will need four or five part-time jobs in order to complete your budget, and it is fine to do this part-time, I also do! But.
There is a difference to making it less attractive as a fulltime job , which it absolutely can become with such an approach to it and is rather worrysome for many pro translators and those who have worked 10 years or more in the industry never lacking any project not one week, and you contribute to their daily work even if you may not see it at first. You do have colleagues, even if you work alone. The rates should rather go UP! It should go the opposite way, the more you work. The more you have, the more you may ask for. Also remember some countries, wages have rised in total, because housing or electricity or taxes have raised. In total, you need to raise naturally also your income. And plan. Altogether must plan, so that the wages are more standardized across which location you are at! And not look at it as what people start doing right after college just to get pocket money. It is not the right way. The best way to do this is to look foremost at your language and its demand. If the demand is strong, and your language is more rare, plus you might be from a high income country that requires more to live by, then of course - you raise the rate! If you are rather from a country with languages that easily get jobs done because there are plentyful translators, you can stand by their rates to complete the market, and rather grow together. But as a motto to keep going and growing this together, we cannot just find translation comparable to Word add-ons and apps which require nothing but 3 EUR to install onetime and that's it. How would you rate for instance proofreading or Machine learning-translation with such an approach ? You would end up with 2 Eur for 250 words at the end! Keep up some standard! This is business, not leisure.
| | | | | Another reason for it | Jan 12, 2022 |
The info that subcontractor rates went downward compared to in-house or staff salary, apart from the fact that people accepting everything highly contributes to it, may also be because industry itself gained more and more reviewers of small machine-tasks and machine translation that again of course is lower rated. The industry might falsely believe this could perhaps attract more people into the field of translation who normally wouldn't do these jobs, and then lower the general price request. ... See more The info that subcontractor rates went downward compared to in-house or staff salary, apart from the fact that people accepting everything highly contributes to it, may also be because industry itself gained more and more reviewers of small machine-tasks and machine translation that again of course is lower rated. The industry might falsely believe this could perhaps attract more people into the field of translation who normally wouldn't do these jobs, and then lower the general price request. The lookout for translators are at least lots more visible than before, in all channels, and the demand is high as ever. But they might just look for the short cuts, instead of quality or good translation, which will be of no benefit for the companies. I see several new newbies and know several people translating, the workspace is loading. Especially younger people. The change from office to home-office is naturally a part of this move. Many people find more jobs online, and many workers have other skills than what linguists had. But you still need that skill for language, and you still need to upwork your field. I find it strange how many , especially those who really want it to be an investment, never think of it as their business and accepts almost anything. These people do not understand the potential of translators. The agencies that accept them might find it just affordable to begin with, but they do not continue with them, and jump to the next candidate. Is that really good, though, to never have an agency that wants you to continue or come back?So it goes on. They go in, and they go out. And this is a very americanized business model. You do not really contract anyone, you just keep them in the pool, but for younger and more naive workers, it is easily exploited market. You find the cheapest ones, of course, they might do a half quality translation , and to proofread or edit the translation into a final file, you may contract yet another subcontractor to review the mistakes or the half quality translation. And you pay them maybe half their price. But why certain companies do it this way, is beyond my belief. It is more time consuming for them!
The quality of a lot of subtitles nowadays,both on high commercial channels and smaller, is lower and lower allover the channels. Bad result of technology, maybe. I don't know. But this is yet a sign that human editors and translators are better. No matter what. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jason Franzman
United States
Local time: 11:48
Japanese to English
TOPIC STARTER | More bottom-feeder companies posting jobs with insulting rates | Feb 16, 2022 |
The rate says $1.5 but, hey, at least they add that's it's negotiable! Problem is, to be anywhere close to a reasonable rate, you would have to negotiate it up x10! Even then, it would still be low. Should be worth a good laugh to see what quality they get out of this!
Why does ProZ allow this crap to continue?
Here it is... See more The rate says $1.5 but, hey, at least they add that's it's negotiable! Problem is, to be anywhere close to a reasonable rate, you would have to negotiate it up x10! Even then, it would still be low. Should be worth a good laugh to see what quality they get out of this!
Why does ProZ allow this crap to continue?
Here it is if you want a good laugh/scream:
https://www.proz.com/job/1878319 ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Japanese-to-English Subtiling Rates | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
| | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
