| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | What about a forum for women and mothers? Thread poster: Silvia Barra (X)
|
|---|
jyuan_us 
United States
Local time: 14:57
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| It's beyond my understanding | Jun 4, 2009 |
It is already a forum that has been going on very well. Looking at the title of this forum, I got a question to ask: Do you want to create another forum specifically for women and mothers? Or is this current forum meant to just explore the feasibility and neccesity to create such a forum? If it is the former, why not directly create one? It it is the latter, is it neccessary to have a lengthy discussion here to find out Yes or NO?
I just didn't get it. I don't even know what questio... See more It is already a forum that has been going on very well. Looking at the title of this forum, I got a question to ask: Do you want to create another forum specifically for women and mothers? Or is this current forum meant to just explore the feasibility and neccesity to create such a forum? If it is the former, why not directly create one? It it is the latter, is it neccessary to have a lengthy discussion here to find out Yes or NO?
I just didn't get it. I don't even know what questions I'm asking about.
[Edited at 2009-06-04 03:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laura Tridico
United States
Local time: 14:57
French to English
+ ...
| Is this for real? | Jun 4, 2009 |
M. Ali Bayraktar wrote:
How you expect me to write constructive and complimentary words about a subject which frankly includes feminism and separation?
I'm afraid I can't even comprehend what you mean by this. Political? Religious??? Silvia had a suggestion for a place to discuss an issue that affects her business. I agree that a "parents" forum isn't appropriate here, though lifestyle issues affect all freelancers and could lead to an interesting discussion.
Is any discussion centered on an issue that affects working women to be "feminist"? Inappropriate? Political? Perhaps we ladies should just keep our mouths shut about these things. We wouldn't want to offend anyone.
As for "separation", you're simply reading something into Silvia's post that isn't there. Do you honestly think ProZ.com would separate forums by gender? Or that Silvia was proposing any such thing?
And by the way, these "feminist" issues - life/work balance, balancing work and family - also affect male freelancers. I guess it's only "feminist" because it was raised by a woman.
Now, I shall go back to thinking about butterflies, bees and Pampers - or maybe the annual report I'm in the middle of translating - I can scarcely tell the difference...
[Edited at 2009-06-04 04:00 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-06-04 04:04 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-06-04 04:05 GMT]
| | | |
Laura Tridico wrote: M. Ali Bayraktar wrote:
How you expect me to write constructive and complimentary words about a subject which frankly includes feminism and separation?
I'm afraid I can't even comprehend what you mean by this. Political? Religious??? Silvia had a suggestion for a place to discuss an issue that affects her business. I agree that a "parents" forum isn't appropriate here, though lifestyle issues affect all freelancers and could lead to an interesting discussion. Is any discussion centered on an issue that affects working women to be "feminist"? Inappropriate? Political? Perhaps we ladies should just keep our mouths shut about these things. We wouldn't want to offend anyone. As for "separation", you're simply reading something into Silvia's post that isn't there. Do you honestly think ProZ.com would separate forums by gender? Or that Silvia was proposing any such thing? And by the way, these "feminist" issues - life/work balance, balancing work and family - also affect male freelancers. I guess it's only "feminist" because it was raised by a woman. [Edited at 2009-06-04 04:00 GMT]
Yes I can see it in this way.
And I am sure if it would be read by 7 billions of people in this planet there would be another people who find the same or similar things in this text.
I have not used the word feminist. I never use such direct assults to the authors.
Please understand it on text base but not personal.
| | | | Laura Tridico
United States
Local time: 14:57
French to English
+ ...
| No further comment. | Jun 4, 2009 |
M. Ali Bayraktar wrote:
So, must I be polite with such idea in which I see feminism, sexual discrimination and separation?
| | |
|
|
|
M. Ali Bayraktar wrote:
I have not used the word feminist. I never use such direct assults to the authors.
The word "feminist" is an insult, used to assault people? That's something new for me.
Anni
| | | | Rod Walters
Japan
Local time: 03:57
Japanese to English
| Silver lining | Jun 4, 2009 |
M. Ali Bayraktar wrote:
We already have problems in this world for gaining enough respect to our business "Translation" and such things really bring damage to all of us.
...
This idea and it's modification is very dangerous.
A topic about women and mothers might open some people's eyes to the reality of how all this 'business' and 'professional' translation gets done, and especially the expenses that translators have to cover. Pampers and good healthy food aren't cheap, which is why rates have to be above a certain level.
I don't see the damage, nor the danger.
A forum like the one proposed will give me the perfect opportunity to relate the story of my little boy sleepwalking into my office and urinating into my kerosene stove...
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 14:57
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Back on topic... | Jun 4, 2009 |
I don't think that a forum on "women and mothers" is a desirable addition. I agree with those who have said that there are lots of such places out there and also worry on how it may reflect on the profession.
While the words "translation: the profession for working mums" may be unfortunate and (quite) offensive, I understand the sentiment behind them and agree. I have met (too) many people who think that translating is nothing more than having one lousy dictionary and having spent 6... See more I don't think that a forum on "women and mothers" is a desirable addition. I agree with those who have said that there are lots of such places out there and also worry on how it may reflect on the profession.
While the words "translation: the profession for working mums" may be unfortunate and (quite) offensive, I understand the sentiment behind them and agree. I have met (too) many people who think that translating is nothing more than having one lousy dictionary and having spent 6 months abroad... and thus decide "hey, I've been laid off/can't find a job/need pocket money/want to stay at home with my kids... I know! I'll become a translator". I am NOT saying that this is an accurate assumption, nor that this is the reality of our colleagues here at Proz. However, regardless of that, such a forum on "women and mothers" will very probably add to that image and I wouldn't like to see that happen.
However, I DO agree that a forum such as Viktoria suggests would be a different matter. A general "Freelancer lifestyle" forum would be an interesting and helpful addition, as long as it focuses on job issues, handling a home office and related wor-related topics.
Greetings
Andrea ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Why distort and mock the original post's intended meaning?!? | Jun 4, 2009 |
Damian Harrison, M.A. wrote:
Would anyone here actually care to define "the professional" or is it just a handy concept for slagging off other Prozians? That may sound harsh, but I've now seen enough negative references to "working Mums" to have an idea of where this discussion is headed.
I am just as surprised as you at the rather mean remarks. I somehow feel Silvia's idea is being ridiculed as though it was downright stupid. I would just like to bring to everybody's attention that Silvia's proposal WAS targeted at freelancers. I find that mentioning gay people, left-handed and right-handed translators and people who are specialized in botany is unfair and uncalled for. It's as though Silvia's idea was rejected for meaning to single out groups of people (discrimination?) whereas she was clearly proposing to gather people, which is pretty much the opposite of how some people here seem to interpret her idea.
If I was able to understand what she meant, I don't see why others wouldn't. Some reactions sure leave a bad taste in my mouth...
| | |
|
|
|
| Just one comment | Jun 4, 2009 |
M. Ali Bayraktar wrote:
We already have problems in this world for gaining enough respect to our business "Translation" and such things really bring damage to all of us.
I was going to comment on your whole post, but I'll spare the community - it's not worth it anyway. Surely most of us have an idea of what my reactions are, so I'll just comment on the above bit.
I sure hope you realize that translators are also people. Although it would be inappropriate to annoy clients with, as you like to call it, Pampers issues, I am also quite convinced that all my clients realize that besides being a translator, I am also a human being. I would flat out refuse to work with anyone who thinks I am a mere translating machine and that I don't need to sleep, go on vacation and care for my loved ones besides my main business activities.
If you think that translators risk being disrespected for the mere fact that they are also human beings, then we are probably not from the same planet...
Edit: For the record, Canada's top ten employers all have a daycare centre right in the office building. Most of them provide additional holidays for new mothers and those with young kids and most of them also offer counselling when workers are living though a separation/divorce, grief of a loved one, depression and withdrawal syndrome. They also offer alternative work schedules to families so they can have a balanced life outside of their work environment. Some of them even let mothers bring their kids to work. There. Incidentally, these employers are also among the most productive companies. Could it be there is some kind of connection between professional and private life? Could it be that in order to keep a worker productive, their care and feeding also need to be addressed? Just thinking out loud...
[Edited at 2009-06-04 06:02 GMT]
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:57
Flemish to English
+ ...
| What I meant : | Jun 4, 2009 |
I don't quite understand how you can work concentrate fully on a project, do intensive searches and work to deliver on time with a baby crying in its cot, which has to be (breast)-fed and hubby off to work. Your life is not centred around translation,but being a mother and translating on the sideline to add an extra to hubbies income. So why bother to give this lady decent rates? That is the view of the general public.
| | | | Rod Walters
Japan
Local time: 03:57
Japanese to English
| Why pander to misconceptions? | Jun 4, 2009 |
It seems that those who are objecting to the idea are doing so on the grounds that translation customers have a certain idea about who does their translations, and it would be wrong to let them know that many professional translators are also functioning parents (you know, raising the next generation of workers and consumers).
Since most of those objecting are at pains to affirm that these misconceptions are horribly off the mark &tc., it's rather hard to understand why they would ... See more It seems that those who are objecting to the idea are doing so on the grounds that translation customers have a certain idea about who does their translations, and it would be wrong to let them know that many professional translators are also functioning parents (you know, raising the next generation of workers and consumers).
Since most of those objecting are at pains to affirm that these misconceptions are horribly off the mark &tc., it's rather hard to understand why they would nevertheless like to see them maintained by the suppression of the true situation of large numbers of translators.
(My needle seems to keep getting stuck in this crack, but if you want to suppress something that's really bad for translators, why don't you call for the suppression of exploitation rates in the job offers? That would truly be in line with professional practice and appearances.) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Are you serious? | Jun 4, 2009 |
Williamson wrote:
...but being a mother and translating on the sideline to add an extra to hubbies income. So why bother to give this lady decent rates? That is the view of the general public.
Are you saying that it is possible to raise a family on one salary? I am definitely not adding an extra to hubbie's income - we both need to work to pay our mortgage, and there are no kids in sight. I agree that too many people are taking this profession lightly, but please don't generalize. There is such a thing as a woman who is a professional translator who also happens to raise a kid. Somebody has to raise the kid, right? Or translators are an exception to the rest of the population and they can't produce an acceptable product if they raise a family at the same time?
For the record, about three quarters of translators are women, the majority of whom also raise kids. Let's add that up, shall we?
| | |
|
|
|
Rod Walters wrote:
...if you want to suppress something that's really bad for translators, why don't you call for the suppression of exploitation rates in the job offers? That would truly be in line with professional practice and appearances.
Your Pampers are showing!
| | | | Williamson
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:57
Flemish to English
+ ...
| In simple terms | Jun 4, 2009 |
I am only saying that you can not concentrate 100% on a translation which has to be delivered the day before yesterday i.e. working against a deadline with a baby crying for its mum or a toddler bumping in for attention every five minutes.
| | | | | As bad as it can get ... | Jun 4, 2009 |
Williamson wrote:
Translation: thé profession for working mums.
Can I just say -- as a 'working mum' (shock horror), who incidentally earns a damn sight more than the average solicitor in the UK -- that I find this type of stereotyping as laughable as it is bigoted.
[Edited at 2009-06-04 07:27 GMT]
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » What about a forum for women and mothers? | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
