| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] | Moderators can answer questions in the Kudoz combination they moderate Thread poster: Elodie Bonnafous
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| I beg to differ | Jun 19, 2009 |
Elodie Bonnafous wrote:
If you want to build a glossary on Proz, you can do it under My Proz.com/My glossary and even gain points. No need of Kudoz questions for that.
There is no need at all to select a "most helpful answer", every translator is free to decide which answers he considers most appropriate basing on comments, discussions and agrees / disagrees. There is no reason why the asker / moderator or anybody else should decide which one of the answers should deserve a glossary entry. If you are so certain of the correctness of a translation, you can enter it yourself under "My glossary". All the more, stopping automatical Glossary entries for each and every "most helpful answer" would definitely increase the glossary's quality.
If there is no open glossary, how do you expect members using the TERM SEARCH to find what they are looking for? The KudoZ glossary is always my first port of call when I'm looking for a difficult term, and it is very helpful for that and has saved me countless times. It shouldn't be given up but expanded to make it better! I admit there's a lot of rubbish in it that needs weeding out, but it's still vastly better than any other online dictionary I know of.
Pray, what use is a personal glossary? Once I know the correct/best translation of a certain term, I don't need to enter it in any glossary anymore. FINDING the term is what's important, and that's facilitated a lot by a good and up-to-date open glossary.
| | | | Elodie Bonnafous
France
Local time: 02:43
Member (2009)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
OK, so I know what to expect and what not to expect now.
I'm just wondering why there is a forum "Proz.com suggestions", if nothing is expected to change.
| | | | Yaotl Altan 
Mexico
Local time: 18:43
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Elodie Bonnafous wrote:
OK, so I know what to expect and what not to expect now.
I'm just wondering why there is a forum "Proz.com suggestions", if nothing is expected to change.
Many changes have beeen implemented since I registered in Proz. Still, I'd like many more of them.
Indeed, I find Proz.com more open than years before.
Kind regards.
| | | | | Feedback is a valuable input for ProZ.com | Jun 19, 2009 |
Elodie Bonnafous wrote:
OK, so I know what to expect and what not to expect now.
I'm just wondering why there is a forum "Proz.com suggestions", if nothing is expected to change.
ProZ.com pays a lot of attention to the feedback received from the community. This feedback can come through several paths including forums, tickets and emails.
This does not mean that ALL suggestions will be implemented.
In particular there is a set guiding principles upon which ProZ.com has been built. They underlie the ProZ.com culture and they should not be expected to change.
The same applies to some basic definitions such as "The main goal of the "help" KudoZ system is to provide those in need of translation assistance with access to timely help. The fact that an archive of previously posted terms with suggested translations has built up is a planned, yet peripheral, benefit."
Regards,
Enrique
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Elodie Bonnafous
France
Local time: 02:43
Member (2009)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Enrique. I must admit I didn't know about those principles and the definition of the Kudoz principles.
Even though I keep thinking that it would be better to reduce the quantity in order to improve the quality, I did not expect anything to change just because of me.
Anyway, thank you very much for your input.
So let's all go back to work now...
I wish you all a nice week-end ... See more Thank you Enrique. I must admit I didn't know about those principles and the definition of the Kudoz principles.
Even though I keep thinking that it would be better to reduce the quantity in order to improve the quality, I did not expect anything to change just because of me.
Anyway, thank you very much for your input.
So let's all go back to work now...
I wish you all a nice week-end
[Edited at 2009-06-19 20:24 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Germany
Local time: 02:43
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
| Ask the wind to stop blowing... | Jun 20, 2009 |
Elodie Bonnafous wrote: Thank you Enrique. I must admit I didn't know about those principles and the definition of the Kudoz principles. Even though I keep thinking that it would be better to reduce the quantity in order to improve the quality, I did not expect anything to change just because of me. Anyway, thank you very much for your input. So let's all go back to work now... I wish you all a nice week-end
Means of reducing the KudoZ flood have already been taken. Further restrictions to the system would be a big hindrance IMHO.
What you suggest looks for me similar to someone, who would suggest to abolish democratic election and reduce the number of people allowed to vote just because a few of them might have got more votes due to being in a public position...
Well, I'm not in favour of that.
It has been discussed and decided before - the right to chose the most helpful answer remains solely the right of the asker. The righto provide (lingustic) comments on aswers belongs to the community, exactly as the right to answer questions.
You may suggest to abolish the system of points for KudoZ, but then we will erase ten years of our history. Why should we? And even if we would stop giving KudoZ from now on, what to do about all those KudoZ earned in the past?
| | | | Elodie Bonnafous
France
Local time: 02:43
Member (2009)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
It was just a suggestion in order to improve quality.
Anyway, I don't expect point grabbers to share my views.
Jerzy Czopik wrote:
And even if we would stop giving KudoZ from now on, what to do about all those KudoZ earned in the past?
Is this REALLY important ? Do you REALLY consider POINTS important for your career as a translator ?
Proz offers enough other possibilities to prove one's seriousness and professionalism (verified member, certified pro, translation contests, endorsement of professional guidelines...)
To me, the key problem IS the fact that points are granted to Kudoz-answerers. (It reminds me of the donkey and carrot story...)
Anyway, I have understood that Kudoz points are part of Proz and will always be, so there's no need to keep discussing that point. It is as it is and we should not expect that kind of change. I have no other choice than to accept it and go back to work.
Best regards to all
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Germany
Local time: 02:43
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
| Confessions of a point grabber | Jun 20, 2009 |
(I'm paraphrasing a title of a stroy by Mats Wiman)
Well, seen my KudoZ account I indeed may be very well seen as a point grabber.
However, my story is a bit different that one of a point grabber, but I do not really care.
You ask me, if the points are important for my career as a translator. There is no single and simple answer to this question. Taken fully alone they are in no way important and they do not bring me forward. But ProZ is much more than only KudoZ.... See more (I'm paraphrasing a title of a stroy by Mats Wiman)
Well, seen my KudoZ account I indeed may be very well seen as a point grabber.
However, my story is a bit different that one of a point grabber, but I do not really care.
You ask me, if the points are important for my career as a translator. There is no single and simple answer to this question. Taken fully alone they are in no way important and they do not bring me forward. But ProZ is much more than only KudoZ. And my presence here on the site is what is important for my professional career. So taking ProZ as a whole, every single aspect here is extremly important for my career.
So I can't separate KudoZ from the rest, as all this belongs together.
Now I'll try to tell you, how do I see KudoZ. At the very beginning I've seen KudoZ as a nice race, giving me the possibility to show the world, that I can (too, as my other KudoZ answering colleagues) provide reasonal translations. Then - after not so long time even - I became KudoZ moderator and the world has changed. KudoZ was from then on means of helping colleagues in difficulites or means of getting help myself. From that point of view the asker is the pledger, asking for help. I think we can agree here, that people do not ask if they don't need help. Would it be in real life, the pledger would thank the people who helped him. However, here on ProZ KudoZ askers developed a very special mentality - (put in a nutshell and of course very simplificated) they are not obliged in any way to be thankful to the answerer, but completly vice versa, the answerer shall be grateful, that the asker ask and then may even give points. Would there be no points, so they wouldn't even care to say thank you for the help. Moderating KudoZ over more than six years I have spend most of my time acting against KudoZ abuse by the asker. Issues with answerers were really very, very rare. The most common issue was insufficient content or rude behaviour by askers. So my experience differs strongly from yours and thus our point of view differs that much.
As for your main point, the quality of the answers: well, there is also a point of quality of questions. From what I've seen until now, high quality questions get brillant answers. And people usually agree with those answerers, who tend to provide those brillant answers. It may happen, that this answerer is a moderator, but this is not always the case. Asker, who ask because they need help (and work in their field) will quite fast learn, who is a reliable KudoZ answerer. Only if you ask KudoZ instead of doing your own research or because you work outside your fields (which happens far too often in KudoZ in my opinion) may just rely on the number of agrees. But to be honest I do not really care, which answer they chose and if their translation will be good or bad. As KudoZ answerer you also quite fast learn, whose questions you will answer and whom you will ignore.
Please look at my profile: it says "Regsistered Febraury 2002". In your profile I read "Registered November 2007". This means over 5 years difference. Maybe this is another reason for my dfferent point of view. ▲ Collapse
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Elodie Bonnafous
France
Local time: 02:43
Member (2009)
German to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Ok, I didn't know some questions had a higher quality than other. Which are the criteria for judging a question's quality ? I thought a translator has a translation problems and has the possibility of asking for help. I didn't know that some questions are "better" than others, nor that an answer's quality depends on the question's quality. In French and German we say: "There's no stupid question, only stupid answers".
I have been a Proz member since 1,5 years, and you for 6 years. ... See more Ok, I didn't know some questions had a higher quality than other. Which are the criteria for judging a question's quality ? I thought a translator has a translation problems and has the possibility of asking for help. I didn't know that some questions are "better" than others, nor that an answer's quality depends on the question's quality. In French and German we say: "There's no stupid question, only stupid answers".
I have been a Proz member since 1,5 years, and you for 6 years. So you really think I am not capable of / deserve having an opinion of my own for that reason ??? So you really think your opinion is the right one because you've been a member longer than me ? What about newbies ? Proz continually develops, and it is a positive thing if we all contribute to improving it, no matter how long we've been members.
I treat every member as an equal and do not look down on anybody, this is the most important principle for a professional collaboration platform.
[Edited at 2009-06-21 12:01 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-06-21 12:02 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-06-21 12:14 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jerzy Czopik
Germany
Local time: 02:43
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
| I do not think you are not capable of anything | Jun 21, 2009 |
I just wanted to emphasize my long-term experience here, as a member and a mod.
Quality of questions differs really very much: some people just put a few words and do not even provide any reference or context for that. It is hard to find examples now, but imagine someone will ask for "Leiter" (German word) and will provide no context at all. What is the right answer? A "ladder" or a "leading person"? So there is big difference in how questions are asked.
Now you see such ques... See more I just wanted to emphasize my long-term experience here, as a member and a mod.
Quality of questions differs really very much: some people just put a few words and do not even provide any reference or context for that. It is hard to find examples now, but imagine someone will ask for "Leiter" (German word) and will provide no context at all. What is the right answer? A "ladder" or a "leading person"? So there is big difference in how questions are asked.
Now you see such question, where context or other importand data is missing and ask the asker to provide such. The reaction differs also very much, and I quite often have been told "leave me alone, what do you want from me"... Some askers are rude, thinking the system is there just for their laziness.
I am sorry, if I have jurt you in any way. It was not my intention. Also it is not my intention to state, that my opinion is the only correct one. But my intention is to say, that the system is imperfect, as we all are imperfect. So we can either arrange to use this system as it is and make the best of it or stop using it. Because I'm strongly convinced, that developing a better system is not possible. ▲ Collapse
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