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un 138e de l'Indépendance VIIe de la libération et de la restauration
se poursuit, comporte et s'étend

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

J'ai fait entrer le loup dans la bergerie !

English translation:

I've let the wolf into the sheepfold! / I've set the fox to keep the geese!

Added to glossary by Conor McAuley
Apr 10, 2023 21:46
1 yr ago
51 viewers *
French term

J'ai fait entrer le loup dans la bergerie!

French to English Art/Literary Sports / Fitness / Recreation
laisser entrer une personne dangereuse ; laisser entrer un élément dangereux
Exemples
Ce que nous disons, c'est qu'il faut prendre garde de faire entrer le loup dans la bergerie et j'aurais souhaité qu'il nous aide à garder portes et fenêtres fermées, mais c'était trop demander.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 I've let the wolf into the sheepfold!
4 +3 I've (really) put the cat among the pigeons
3 I asked the fox to guard the hen house
3 -1 I have let in a wolf in sheepskin
Change log

Apr 11, 2023 19:07: Conor McAuley Created KOG entry

Discussion

Daryo Apr 12, 2023:
OK it's any enclosed space, with or without a roof. But that doesn't change the key point: whoever said "J'ai fait entrer le loup dans la bergerie!" regrets making a stupid mistake and opening the door/gate wide open for the wulf to get right in the middle of the flock.
Tony M Apr 12, 2023:
@ Daryo Actually no! La bergerie is 'the place where the sheep are kept', and refers both to their pen, and also the actual building — cf. 'la porcherie' = piggery (only we don't have 'sheepery' in EN!) Sometimes the '-erie' connotes 'an enclosure' of some kind.
Daryo Apr 12, 2023:
In fact la bergerie is a building - the barn where a flock of sheep is kept

bergerie nom féminin (de berger)

1. Bâtiment pour le logement des moutons.

Synonyme : bercail
https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/bergerie/8853
so

J'ai fait entrer le loup dans la bergerie!

would literally be

I brought the wolf into the sheep barn!
Michele Fauble Apr 11, 2023:
Language variant Are you asking for British or US English?
Bourth Apr 10, 2023:
fold vs sheepfold Having never encountered 'sheepfold', I was curious to find out more and was surprised by the results.


An advantage of 'fold' over 'sheepfold' (and bergerie) is that it is less pastoral and can more easily take on the meaning of 'fold' as 'community, home, organization (incl. church), etc.' as in
* Her children are all away at college now, but they always return to the fold during the holidays.
* After the last election, the Republican Party tried to bring former conservatives back into the fold.
* The team offered the star forward everything they could to bring her into the fold.
* She was afraid that he'd become upset with the church and leave the fold.
* They welcomed the newest family member into the fold.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fold

Proposed translations

+5
10 mins
Selected

I've let the wolf into the sheepfold!

Seems to be from the Bible, John 10:1-14, but not a direct quote.

See this passage:

See https://www.bible.com/bible/105/JHN.10.1-14.NCV


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Note added at 16 mins (2023-04-10 22:03:01 GMT)
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In a French context you could talk about a mole (une taupe) with reference to World Cup 2010 (the Henry handball and all the rest of it in SA...), if readers can follow.

Keeping windows and doors closed could refer to preventing leaks by a mole, so the image could fit.

EVERYTHING from PSG leaks to L'Equipe or other media, in about 10 seconds flat, the context could be that...

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Note added at 23 mins (2023-04-10 22:10:35 GMT)
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Many sources render it as "setting the fox to keep the geese".

It looks like you're translating the expression out of context, like for a dictionary, so I think this is the best option.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2023-04-11 18:31:43 GMT)
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Proverbs found in *The Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs*

*University of Aberdeen*
https://www.abdn.ac.uk › sll › documents › Pro...
DOC
23aCR, 029.42, 285, *He sets the fox to keep the geese.* 03AN, 019.32, 287, To take French leave. 09MO, 099.40, 288, Never friar forgot feud.




*Dorset dialect*

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Dorset_dialect
Dorset (or archaically, Dorsetshire) is a county in South West England on the ... and *Zet the fox to keep the geese similar to 'Putting the fox in charge of ...*


("Set" changes to "zet" in the local dialect.)

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Note added at 21 hrs (2023-04-11 19:02:22 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

A Fabrice59 : Bsr = Bonsoir ?

OK, je t'en prie, il n'y a pas de souci.

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Note added at 21 hrs (2023-04-11 19:10:49 GMT) Post-grading
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Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the KudoZ... ;-)
Note from asker:
Bsr! Merci ! Cordialement.
Peer comment(s):
agree Bourth : I know it as just "... into the fold.
12 mins
Thanks A., that definitely works too.
agree ph-b (X) : "set(ting) the fox to keep the geese": 1st thing that came to mind but I'm not a native speaker. However, backed by R&C.
13 hrs
Thanks ph-b!
neutral Andrew Bramhall : Never heard " setting the fox to keep the geese" before. Geese would be strong enough to ward off the predations of foxes anyway.
19 hrs
I looked into in again, thought it might be a calque from German, but then found two reliable sources, referring to the Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs and to Dorset dialect, so that's plenty much for me.
agree Daryo : nearest to the ST
20 hrs
Cheers Daryo!
agree Anastasia Kalantzi : It's one of our dearest Greek proverbs: ''We put the wolf to guard the sheep!''..
2 days 9 hrs
Thanks Anastasia!
agree AllegroTrans : Ye don't zpeek no Darzet Paddy // well yur knowz yur henz from yur cowz, oill wager that
7 days
I do a bit now! I'm not a fan of the P-word at all, to be honest, and especially when said with bad intentions, but I'm sure you meant no harm. Just an age thing I suppose, with genuine respect... When was the last time you heard "Jock"? Poor Scotland!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks!"
25 mins

I asked the fox to guard the hen house

One option
Peer comment(s):
neutral mrrafe : This is much more common in US than the wolf/sheepfold
2 hrs
neutral Tony M : Doesn't sound terribly natural to me in EN-GB — and especially not using 'asked'. "I set the fox..." would be more natural to my ears.
8 hrs
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : "Set the fox..."
13 hrs
neutral Daryo : this ST would be more "I let the fox into the hen house"
20 hrs
neutral Conor McAuley : I note that my two colleagues agree with my answer here. Intellectual consistency?
20 hrs
Something went wrong...
+3
8 hrs

I've (really) put the cat among the pigeons

I have to admit, I'd nevere heard the EN version with a wolf before — but I believe this is the much commoner version I'm familiar, at least in EN-GB.
I think it is often used with 'really', in cases where the sense is rather rueful!
Peer comment(s):
agree Yvonne Gallagher
4 hrs
Thanks, Yvonne!
agree Robert Brown : This is the classic British English expression.
4 hrs
Thanks, Robert!
disagree Conor McAuley : Tony, I don't think I've ever completely disagreed with you, but this is far too conversational, tame and lacking in the grave danger and rank stupidity expressed in the French, almost whole meaning lost. / Cats hunt for fun, wolves definitely don't!!!
5 hrs
It accurately represents the standard translation of the source idiom; whether or not that idiom was apt in the S/T is outside our remit. I think there is a huge risk of over-interpretation here, coloured by personal choices.
agree Andrew Bramhall : Have to say , Conor's disagree seems spurious to me;
11 hrs
Thanks, Andrew!
neutral Daryo : wouldn't that mean "provoking a dispute" / "stirring troubles"? i.e. s.t. far milder than letting a wolf loose on a flock of sheep?
11 hrs
No, it's exactly the same (Biblical) idiom in EN-GB
agree AllegroTrans
6 days
Thanks, C!
Something went wrong...
-1
8 hrs

I have let in a wolf in sheepskin

A suggestion

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Note added at 20 hrs (2023-04-11 18:08:05 GMT)
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Modification following my peers suggestions:
I have let in a wolf in sheep’s clothing

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Note added at 20 hrs (2023-04-11 18:34:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

But the person who let the wolf get inside was unknowingly letting the wolf in on account of his low profile ( the sheep’s clothing)
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : That's a quite different idiom: "a wolf in sheep's clothing", but the meaning is completely different.
23 mins
It explains how the wolf was allowed in
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : You got idioms mixed up. And this is not native English anyway//there is no link! 2 distinct idioms and meanings
4 hrs
Just saw the link between the two idioms
neutral Andrew Bramhall : Has to be " in sheeps' clothing", as TM says.
11 hrs
I agree with you.
disagree Daryo : you're adding a layer that doesn't exist in the ST - nothing suggests in the ST some especially smart tricks played by the wolf - all I can see is dumb guardians doing a botched job of protecting the flock.
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
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