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Débraquer/Dé-braquage
à l'origine de l'installation

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

reposer sur des pieds

English translation:

freestanding / rest on feet

Added to glossary by Helen Shiner
Dec 17, 2020 11:25
3 yrs ago
53 viewers *
French term

reposer sur des pieds (here)

French to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting Historical tapestries
In a description of 17th-century French tapestries made in the Beauvais factory in 1689, describing artistic composition. Context: "Le décor de ces tapisseries fait échos aux fêtes royales et spectacles qui se déroulaient dans les jardins de Versailles sous Louis XIV. En effet, jusque dans la composition on peut observer que les décors **reposent sur des pieds** rappelant leur caractère éphémère et mobile." "Decors" I presume refers to the setting of the tapestry picture, but how can that be resting on feet? Is it scenery (as on web page https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O124918/tapestry-monnoyer... Thanks in advance for any help.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +4 (the decorative panels) rest on feet
3 stand on legs
3 resting on (their) feet
3 the scenery rests on casters
3 -1 Are placed on a stand
Change log

Dec 22, 2020 23:24: Helen Shiner Created KOG entry

Discussion

Mpoma Dec 22, 2020:
More! "roulette", in Dictionnaire universel de Furetière, publié en 1690:
"Petite rouë qui supporte un fardeau, qui le fait rouler. Les canons des vaisseaux sont posez sur des roulettes.
ROULETTE, est aussi une petite couchette qui roule sur des rouës pour la transporter & cacher, quand on veut. Un mary qui couche dans la roulette, tandis que sa femme couche au grand lit, est un grand sot." ( https://dictionnaire.lerobert.com/definition/roulette )

Yes, there are many different meanings for roulette, one being an odd wheelchair contraption in which Louis XIV was wheeled about Versailles, presumably when old, fat and gouty.

The main point being, however, that that V&A photo confirms all we need to know: considered in combination with the ST it is abundantly clear that these scenery elements are on attached small wheels or castors (i.e. possibly of a non-swivelling kind), which enable the elements to be shifted quickly (éphémère, mobile) and with much less effort than if you have to lift them, something which spectacular live entertainment (which Louis XIV loved) requires.
Mpoma Dec 22, 2020:
Age of the word "caster"/"castor" Here's a slightly intriguing thing (for we language nerds): 'caster/or: "small wheel and swivel attached to the leg of a piece of furniture," 1748, agent noun from cast (v.) in the old sense of "turn." Also sometimes castor.' ( https://www.etymonline.com/word/caster#etymonline_v_34260 ). Intriguing, because 1748 is not TOO long after these scenic elements are said to have been built, under Louis XIV (died 1715). I cited a website ( https://phswire.com/wire/the-history-of-casters/ ) where it says castors (as a concept) have been around for many centuries.

The equivalent FR word is, normally, roulette. I have tried looking for the earliest occurrence of that word, but FR doesn't have as many resources on the InterOuèbbe, obviously. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it was Louis XIV's minions who coined it for this precise purpose.

And it is a shame that the ST didn't use that word, since (in my view) it would have made things a lot clearer. Can it be justifiable to translate pieds as "castors"? Given that "(generic) feet" do not "[rappellent le] caractère éphémère et mobile [des décors]" in any sense whatsoever.

Only the Asker can decide!
Mpoma Dec 22, 2020:
@Helen Ooops, there's no trolling going on here. Please stick to the substantive question and challenge, if applicable, on rational grounds. Finally it will be up to the asker to decide what she thinks the phrase means. I have given what I believe to be the correct answer.
Helen Shiner Dec 22, 2020:
@Mpoma The question asked here is ‘reposer sur des pieds”. Unless you have a suggestion for the Asker, I’m afraid your trolling is just wasting everyone’s time.
Mpoma Dec 22, 2020:
@Helen I can only say "look again".

That structure simply isn't a "large textile" or a "painted panel". You can see the back wall through it (same colour as either side of the scenery structure).

I feel my confidence about this growing to almost the proportions of Helen's, when I point to the fact that "scenery" is also fitting when the text starts talking of "leur caractère éphémère et mobile". Nothing more ephemeral (or mobile for that matter) than stage scenery: "... shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind."

... which, incidentally, also tends to favour the choice of "casters". This mobile scenery is indeed only mobile by virtue of the fact that the things which support it are able to move, i.e. not merely generic "feet".

Conversely, there is in fact no specific reference to exotic animals in the ST, only fêtes and spectacles. The V&A link is useful but not the text we have to try and understand.
Helen Shiner Dec 22, 2020:
@Mpoma It is either a large textile or painted panel within an elaborate frame. It was used to give a frame/backdrop to the display of exotic animals, as it clearly says in the V&A text.
Mpoma Dec 22, 2020:
Aha OK... got it now! The thingy within the image has thingies which look remarkably like the casters from my Granny's old 1950s mahogany sideboards!

BUT ... I still see no sign whatsoever of a "panel". That structure behind the elephant is what it is SAID to be in the ST, to wit décors, EN scenery. Notice that the back wall of the room here appears to be visible through the structure of the scenery. Whereas a "panel" is usually going to be "solid" (although some panels may have some kind of "openwork"). That is not a panel.
Helen Shiner Dec 22, 2020:
@Carol and Tony Thanks for giving the details. I’ve just got in with the Christmas shop. So not a good moment to deal with this!
Tony M Dec 22, 2020:
@ mpoma It is the 'scenic element' within the picture — the pillars and bits and bobs — that is quite clearly standing on feet.
Thise is presumbly depicting bits of 'scenery' placed in the real landscape (here, on a terrace, perhaps) to act as an attractive setting to frame their picnic or whatever entertainment was being presented.
Judging by the siez of the chap leading it, that's actually a fairly baby elephant, I'd say!
Carol Gullidge Dec 22, 2020:
@Mpoma Click on the image from Helen’s link to zoom/enlarge it. Look closely along the bottom of the device in the image and you’ll spot at least 8 roundish objects that are clearly shaped like casters. In this image at least, the tapestry/backdrop/screen is clearly being moved along the ground, accompanied by an elephant to provide an idea of its size.
Helen Shiner Dec 22, 2020:
@mpoma I can only say, “look again”.
Mpoma Dec 22, 2020:
@Helen - Very puzzled and not a little sceptical I've gone to that V&A link and zoomed in... I can't see any sign of "casters" or "feet". The accompanying V&A text says absolutely nothing about casters or feet, or how the tapestry is presented (hung? on a wall? on a frame?). All it says is "The border is imitating a gilded frame with gadrooning".

I can't see any evidence of a "decorative panels" ... where do you get this idea/conviction from? These appear to be tapestries, not panels.

Also your translation appears to gloss over/ignore something in the ST: what are we to make of "jusque dans la composition on peut observer que les décors reposent sur des pieds". This suggests that it is actually something intrinsic to the scene or image depicted, not a physical add-on (to some putative "panel").
Helen Shiner Dec 17, 2020:
@Carol Yes, I have done so now from my laptop. I had previously only checked it from my phone and saw only the downward-facing feet, but, for some reason, not the casters ;-) I presume the V&A knows what it is talking about. I imagine these panels were rolled into place and then secured for the purpose of static displays.
Carol Gullidge Dec 17, 2020:
@ Helen, if you enlarge the image in the link (use "Zoom" button) ) it becomes very clear that the device is being rolled along on what can only be described as a set of at least 8 visible casters - so this particular piece of scenery is not static.
As far as I remember, the backdrop is just one of the many possible pieces of scenery used in any production. But as you already said, this isn't the topic of the question!
Helen Shiner Dec 17, 2020:
Freestanding Whoever wrote the text went for obfuscation, that's for sure, if they are on casters. I would either say, 'on casters' or 'freestanding', as I previously suggested.
Helen Shiner Dec 17, 2020:
@Carol Probably because you can see the image more clearly than anyone else, me included! The V&A page says they were used for static displays of animals and birds. So backdrop might be ok, but scenery definitely not. But this isn't actually the question we are meant to be answering!
Carol Gullidge Dec 17, 2020:
Sorry, it's not the Petit Trianon, but you get the picture anyway!
Carol Gullidge Dec 17, 2020:
nobody seems to be mentioning that the piece of scenery depicted in the link is in fact being transported on casters (small wheels). It is definitely scenery (probably, although not necessarily, a backdrop), being used for one of the many outdoor performances/tableaux such as those organised by Marie-Antoinette, etc.
You do need to enlarge the image to see that it is standing on casters.
Helen Shiner Dec 17, 2020:
@Robert If that is the case - we don't know the tone of the text - then maybe my 'freestanding' suggestion is also appropriate on that score.
Helen Shiner Dec 17, 2020:
Distinctions I would make a distinction between 'scenery' (generally used for a performance of some kind), or 'backdrops' (again used for some kind of performance or tableau vivant), and 'decorative panels' as I suggest, which is more neutral. These panels are being used to delineate the space within which a garden party is taking place. (I know this is not the question being asked directly here, but we're discussing it anyway ;-))
Robert Such Dec 17, 2020:
It sounds like it’s a pun on pied (foot), which alludes to something transitory, a fleeting moment, but also means plinth, on which the columns and backdrop, the scenery, rests. It works in French, but not so well in English.
Carol Gullidge Dec 17, 2020:
In Helen's image, it looks like an enormous (c.f., the size of the elephant) piece of scenery (a backdrop?) being transported on legs with casters.
This fits in with the "spectacles qui se déroulaient dans les jardins de Versailles"

I'm no expert, but I'm not sure it matters too much whether you use "feet" or "legs", although my instinct would be to opt for "legs" here!
Helen Shiner Dec 17, 2020:
Image If you look at the image, you’ll see that the framing of the decorative panels (décors) has feet. These are ephemeral stage sets that could be moved around. You can see it here: http://m.vam.ac.uk/collections/item/O124918/tapestry-monnoye...
Helen Shiner Dec 17, 2020:
Link Your link doesn’t work. Please repost.
Ana Vozone Dec 17, 2020:
Does it mean that the objects depicted in the tapestries are, for instance, pieces of furniture resting on their feet?

Proposed translations

+4
39 mins
Selected

(the decorative panels) rest on feet

See my discussion comments

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Note added at 42 mins (2020-12-17 12:08:19 GMT)
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Or, to be honest, I think I would translate it as “the decorative panels are freestanding”.

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Note added at 44 mins (2020-12-17 12:09:53 GMT)
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The point being made is that they weren’t permanently installed somewhere.
Peer comment(s):
neutral ormiston : The term 'feet' sounds slightly odd
1 hr
Look at the image is all I can say. However, I have said I prefer ‘freestanding’.
agree philgoddard : Legs are longer, but I think either would do.
3 hrs
Thanks, though now we discover they are on feet + casters ;-)
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : "Freestanding" was what sprung to mind for me too, casters or not, the way the term is used in the extract posted, it works well. If casters are mentioned later, then of course you'll have the chance to do likewise. ;-)
4 hrs
Thanks, Nikki. I hope it gets round the issue.
agree Michele Fauble : Freestanding
8 hrs
Thanks, Michele
agree writeaway
10 hrs
Thanks, writeaway :-)
agree Rachel Fell
10 hrs
Thank you, Rachel
disagree Mpoma : Sorry I can see no evidence of any panels anywhere. Too much surmising.
5 days
Sorry you can’t see the image. And anyway, this is not relevant for the question asked.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks very much for your help"
54 mins

stand on legs

Tables and chairs have legs, presumably so do these items.

Feet is a false friend.

Possibly not unlike the banners used at marches and demonstrations, like the one here: https://www.alamy.com/trade-unions-gather-together-to-march-...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : Feet is not a false friend. It is often used in the decorative arts.
2 mins
Not one of my specialist subject areas, just trying to help out -- will take your word for it.
neutral Tony M : When you look at them, they are very short, stumpy 'legs', and I think are better referred to as 'feet', just as they might on say a sideboard.
5 days
Something went wrong...
58 mins

resting on (their) feet

As suggested initially in my discussion.
Peer comment(s):
neutral ormiston : Like horses?!
1 hr
No, like furniture ... Really? https://www.google.com/search?q="resting on feet" furniture&...
neutral Tony M : Would be quite wrong if you add 'their'; otherwise, identical to Helen's earlier answer.
5 days
I suppose you agree with "resting on feet"?
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

Are placed on a stand

I think this conveys the idea, and a stand can be moved around.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : Except they are not, if you look at the image./I posted a better link in the discussion box, since Nicky seems to have disappeared.
12 mins
I can't access it!
neutral Ana Vozone : Please check the link ....
42 mins
disagree Tony M : Definitely no sign of a 'stand' anywhere here.
5 days
Something went wrong...
5 days

the scenery rests on casters

Décors means nothing more nor less than EN scenery. This is consistent with the image, and it is also consistent with the ST: "fait échos aux fêtes royales et spectacles qui se déroulaient"...

Like Conor I am a little dubious about Helen's choice of "feet". She gives no evidence for helf slightly overly self-confident assertion that it is "often used in the decorative arts". Maybe it is, but maybe not in this precise context.

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Note added at 5 days (2020-12-22 17:41:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PS there might in fact be a case for saying something like "the scenery element rests on casters": it may be preferable if the English word is a countable singular noun, since this is what we see in the tapestry, even if the French uses the plural décors.

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Note added at 5 days (2020-12-22 18:12:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PPS but then again, the example link to that specific V&A tapestry is slightly distracting. Considering the ST alone, "scenery" is probably fine.

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Note added at 6 days (2020-12-24 10:36:41 GMT) Post-grading
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Actually, after having downloaded the V&G image and zoomed in a lot (it is quite hi-res), I have come to the conclusion that these are not in fact casters/ors, but in fact pointy elements (made of wood presumably). In view of this, it is too much to surmise that the ST is referring to "castors" when it says pieds. OTOH there is no doubt, for all the reasons given in my discussion entries, that this concerns "scenery" or "scenery elements", not screens.
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Eaxctly, as I said, I think these 'scenic elements' could be referred to collectively as 'scenery'; I think I'd favour 'stand' on castors rather than 'rest', which to me suggests something rather more fortuitous.
50 mins
Thanks, and your 2 points are spot on: British EN seems to favour "castors" (whoops) and, yes, see what you mean about "stand".
disagree Helen Shiner : Castors were patented in the 1870s./ Wheels are not castors. This is not trolling; it is specialist knowledge.
1 hr
Haha, who's trolling now? "Moving large items with wheels has been around since the early existence of ancient civilization. ... in 1876, casters were first patented...". Fortunately I find this sort of lunacy great fun... (see discussion: 1748)
Something went wrong...
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