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veines géologiques exploitées
et qui auraient le même objet.

Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

...mais l'application,

English translation:

Null/void... application...

    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2014-06-19 07:54:10 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Jun 15, 2014 10:29
9 yrs ago
French term

...mais l'application,

French to English Law/Patents General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters Contract between producer of Dolomite and supplier
This falls under the article title of "Miscellaneous provisions", following those of "Force majeure" and "Unexpected events". I cannot seem to make sense of this part of the sentence in order to connect it properly to the other phrases. The sentence follows below with my attempt at the full translation:

"La nullité éventuelle de l'une des clauses du présent contrat n’entrainera pas la nullité des autres dispositions, mais l'application, le cas échéant, de la clause d’imprévision reprise ci- dessus à l’article 10."

"The potential nullification of any of the clauses in this contract shall not lead to nullification of the other provisions, except where an application is necessary of the clause for “Unexpected events” covered above in Article 10."

Is there something missing, or have I misunderstood its usage? Or is it correct after all?
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 Null/void... application...
4 but possible enforcement
4 (except in the case where) the application of the clause....p
4 the unforeseen events clause shall apply
4 but, if appropriate, would cause the contingency clause to apply
Change log

Jun 15, 2014 11:44: Lara Barnett changed "Field" from "Bus/Financial" to "Law/Patents" , "Field (specific)" from "Law (general)" to "General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): mchd

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Discussion

Lara Barnett (asker) Jun 15, 2014:
@ all Thank you for all your comments. I think it is the opposition issue that Tim mentions that has confused me. Obviously "mais" has an extremely wider range of nuances than "but".
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jun 15, 2014:
@ Lara For some basics on English contract law, this might be fun bedtime reading. Allen & Overy are not nobody! ;-) http://a4id.org/sites/default/files/user/documents/english-c...
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jun 15, 2014:
Tim and Peter Do you not think the use of "but may + infinitive" provides a suitable solution?
Peter LEGUIE Jun 15, 2014:
Tim I still believe there is an opposition between "entraîner la nullité des autres dispositions" and "appliquer la clause d'imprévision, le cas échéant". One situation comes in rescue of another, but cancelling other provisions does not appkly, as might be feared.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jun 15, 2014:
It is actually very straightforward. If A occurs, then that will not mean that B shall occur. However, what will happen, is C.
Evgeny Artemov (X) Jun 15, 2014:
Thanks, Tim I'd actually reword this: "If/In the event any of the provisions/clauses hereof is held invalid, it shall not affect the validity of the other provisions/clauses, (and) then the unforeseen events clause ... shall apply."
Tim Webb Jun 15, 2014:
Peter There is no opposition between the 2 actions. One follows on from the other (if nullity of a clause of the contract .... then application of ...)

Lara
"Rather" is not idiomatic. It is a simple "if ... then ..." clause (I agree with Evgeny's comment)
Lara Barnett (asker) Jun 15, 2014:
"Rather"? or "in this situation"? What about "shall not lead to the nullification of the other provisions, "rather" /"in this situation" the clause for "Unexpected events", covered above in Article 10, shall apply."
Or what about Evgeny's comment?
Peter LEGUIE Jun 15, 2014:
Tim Yes, I believe that we have both grasped the basic meaning. The only thing wrong with "and" in my opinion is that it does not express any opposition between actions. But it might work.
Evgeny Artemov (X) Jun 15, 2014:
+ and possibly add "then" after "and".
Tim Webb Jun 15, 2014:
try "and" instead of "but" ... will not affect the validity of the remaining provisions, and the unexpected events clause [...] shall apply.

Literally in French the phrase says: "..shall not lead to the invalidity of A but to the application of B"
= "A shall remain valid and B shall apply"
Peter LEGUIE Jun 15, 2014:
Lara I feel quite sure that "mais l'application" means "instead of" in some sense, but definitely not "except for", which stands for something excluding particular situations. It is probably closer to "a contrario".
Lara Barnett (asker) Jun 15, 2014:
@ writeaway I have done this, but the problem I have is that I do not understand its meaning due to its placement in the complete sentence. (as per my original question: " in order to connect it properly to the other phrases" & I also asked if my original attempt made sense).
writeaway Jun 15, 2014:
This is a bog standard contract clause I suggest searching the web for examples of how to translate it
Peter LEGUIE Jun 15, 2014:
Lara Well how about something like "but instead"?
Peter LEGUIE Jun 15, 2014:
Lara I do not think that "except" and "but" have exactly the same meaning (here, and generally speaking).
Evgeny Artemov (X) Jun 15, 2014:
It will lead not to the nullity/invalidity of (the) other provisions, but to the application, where appropriate, of the unforeseen/unforeseeable events clause.
Lara Barnett (asker) Jun 15, 2014:
@ Peter I cannot use "but" because there needs to be a second phrase following showing the difference. But cannot stand on its own.
Peter LEGUIE Jun 15, 2014:
Lara I would say "but (the) possible enforcement" of the "unexpected events" clause.... This should work, in my view, as being slightly re-phrased.
Peter LEGUIE Jun 15, 2014:
Lara I would say "but (the) possible enforcement" of the "unexpected events" clause.... This should work, in my view, as being slightly re-phrased.

Proposed translations

+3
3 hrs
French term (edited): nullité...l'application... imprévision
Selected

Null/void... application...

“Should one of the clauses herein be rendered null, this shall not render null other contractual provisions, but may give rise to the application of the (un)foreseeability provision set out in article 10 above”.

I think there is a term for "clause d'imprévision" which, for the life of me, I cannot find right now. However, this is to do with foreseeability/unforseeability (a big thing in English law, what with that and the "reasonable man", as any UK law student will know!) . It depends how you have termed the famous "unexepcted events" clause. That term will not do, by the way. The term is as mentionend above. I think that (hang on..., let me scroll up...) Yes, John has the same term too. It really is standard in such circumstances. My suggestion needs a little tweaking here and there but there really is no wizardry in the original. ;-)
Peer comment(s):
agree Tim Webb : The excellent resource you give in the DB suggests "Frustration" for clause d'imprévision. And talking of frustration, I feel sure that "and will give rise" is better than "but will give rise", but I just can't explain why!!
3 hrs
agree Victoria Britten
4 hrs
agree B D Finch : You go beyond the call of duty or KudoZ! "Clause d'imprévision" > hardship clause?
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you."
6 mins

but possible enforcement

This includes "le cas échéant".
Note from asker:
"Enforcement" is useful, but there is not connecting paragraph for use after "but", how would that work?
Something went wrong...
12 mins

(except in the case where) the application of the clause....p

the potential nullification of any of the clauses in this contract shall not lead to nullification of the other provisions, except in the case where the of the clause for “Unexpected events” covered above in Article 10 is necessary/required."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2014-06-15 10:53:34 GMT)
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basically, what it's saying is that just because one clause is nullified doesn't mean the whole contract is terminated. Force majeure and unexpected event clauses usually give reasons why there is no breach or infraction to be considered because of events beyond control.

Obviously if Article 10 is applied in some cases it DOES impact on other clauses or indeed on the contract as a whole (if a rescission clause)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 25 mins (2014-06-15 10:54:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

no, you've got the meaning and I would not use "but" either.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2014-06-15 11:02:10 GMT)
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typo just spotted in second line. Should read (.... the case where) the clause for "unexpected events"...

I might use "provided for " instead of "covered"

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-06-15 11:58:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"except where/except in the case where ..." are perfectly OK imo here. = If this happens, then...
Note from asker:
So I have not misunderstood the phrase?
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

the unforeseen events clause shall apply

the remaining provisions of the contract shall not be void
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

but, if appropriate, would cause the contingency clause to apply

For a start, translating "nullité éventuelle" as "potential nullification" does not put you on track. "éventuelle" would be better translated as "In the event of " / "in case of" or perhaps "where any one clause of the agreement is deemed null and void, ..."

And "clause d'imprévision" is the "contingency clause".

"Le cas échéant" = if appropriate / as appropriate

In substance : "The nullification of any one clause of this agreement shall not entail the nullification of the other clauses but, if appropriate, would cause the contingency clause to apply, in reference to Art. 10 above"






--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2014-06-15 15:05:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Other E term for "clause d'imprévisibilité"/ "clause d'imprévision" = the hardship clause

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2014-06-15 15:06:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/hardship-clause...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Not sure about "contingency clause" as a contingency requries a specific condition to be met. Something which is "imprévu" (unforseeable) is by nature not something to which an identified condition can be attached as it is, by its very nature, unknown.
1 hr
"Contingencies" = "Imprévus" in contracts AND project budgets. It may cover events budgeted and provisoned as "imprévus" (from the failure to secure a bank loan to exceptional weather conditions, etc.)
Something went wrong...
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