Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Polish term or phrase:
przełom XX i XXI wieku
English translation:
the turn of the 21st century (the dawn/outset of the 21st century)
Added to glossary by
Caryl Swift
Sep 14, 2008 10:07
15 yrs ago
14 viewers *
Polish term
przełom XX i XXI wieku
Polish to English
Other
Linguistics
self-explanatory
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +8 | the turn of the 21st century |
Caryl Swift
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| 4 +1 | the turn of the 20th and 21st century |
Arkadiusz Witek
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| 4 +1 | at the end of the 20th century |
Marek Daroszewski (MrMarDar)
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Change log
Sep 15, 2008 08:38: Caryl Swift Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+8
18 mins
Selected
the turn of the 21st century
I've been doing some hunting, which is why it's taken so long to reply (in KudoZ Speed terms, that is).
I've always tended to say/use 'at the turn of the XYZ century; XYZ here equalling the century being entered, rather than the one being left behind.
However, to be sure this isn't some kind of personal linguistic quirk, I did some hunting on Google and, indeed, it does seem to be very common usage.
I don't really like pasting in this kind of reference, but if you take a look here, they seems to support the idea that it's normally the new century which is referred to, rather than both the old and the new:
http://tinyurl.com/5zgrhe
http://tinyurl.com/6z3pnm
BTW, I specifically picked an 'old' century, to be sure that it wasn't just a phrase used when referring the century the speaker/write is speaking/writing from, but is used whatever the centuries being referred to.
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Note added at 28 mins (2008-09-14 10:35:57 GMT)
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Yes - though the Millenium thing adds a whole new dimension of potential lexical pedantry, don't you think?!
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Note added at 12 hrs (2008-09-14 22:37:41 GMT) Post-grading
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My pleasure!
I've always tended to say/use 'at the turn of the XYZ century; XYZ here equalling the century being entered, rather than the one being left behind.
However, to be sure this isn't some kind of personal linguistic quirk, I did some hunting on Google and, indeed, it does seem to be very common usage.
I don't really like pasting in this kind of reference, but if you take a look here, they seems to support the idea that it's normally the new century which is referred to, rather than both the old and the new:
http://tinyurl.com/5zgrhe
http://tinyurl.com/6z3pnm
BTW, I specifically picked an 'old' century, to be sure that it wasn't just a phrase used when referring the century the speaker/write is speaking/writing from, but is used whatever the centuries being referred to.
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Note added at 28 mins (2008-09-14 10:35:57 GMT)
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Yes - though the Millenium thing adds a whole new dimension of potential lexical pedantry, don't you think?!
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Note added at 12 hrs (2008-09-14 22:37:41 GMT) Post-grading
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My pleasure!
Note from asker:
| http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=258260 out of the second of your links seems a particularly good source. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Marek Daroszewski (MrMarDar)
: sorry to duplicate your point :-)
8 mins
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Nothing to apologise for! When one's hunting among the library stacks for verification, what's happening here on the page tends to fade into the mists! Thank you! :-)
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| agree |
Himawari
24 mins
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Thank you :-)
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| neutral |
Barbara Gadomska
: There was a discussion on the same point http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/poetry_literature/902871-t... but the conclusion was different from yours
44 mins
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Which is why I spent some time checking,in case it was MPOV and not generally accepted;and why I claim no more than medium certainty.On the other hand, if I read it correctly,the ref.pidzej refers to comes to the opposite conclusion.A foggy area, I fear
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| agree |
YahoS
1 hr
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Thank you :-)
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| agree |
Magdalena Psiuk
: wg. oxford dict: "the time when the new century starts"
1 hr
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Thank you :-)
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| agree |
Polangmar
: Przegląd Google potwierdza to w jakichś 80% - żeby więc uzyskać stuprocentową jednoznaczność, trzeba chyba jednak powiedzieć "the turn of the 20th century into the 21 st".
2 hrs
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Thank you. As regards your comment, I'll use the discussion boix, where there's a little more room than here.
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| agree |
Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak)
2 hrs
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Thank you :-)
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| agree |
Piotr Rypalski
4 hrs
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Thank you :-)
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| agree |
Michal Berski
7 hrs
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Thank you :-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks, Caryl, just sought a confirmation of my suspicions but did not want to suggest anything."
+1
3 mins
Arkadiusz Witek
Poland
Poland
Native in Polish
Poland
Accurate and reliable translations
Native in: Polish 
Works in: English to German, English to Polish, Polish to English, and 6 more.
the turn of the 20th and 21st century
nic do objaśnienia
Note from asker:
| fajnie, ale turn of the 20th century na ogół oznacza fin de siecle, czyli +/- 31 grudnia 1900. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak)
: wg. PWN Oxford "....centuries"
3 hrs
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dziękuję bardzo.
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+1
25 mins
Marek Daroszewski (MrMarDar)
Native in Polish
Works in field
Native in: Polish 
Works in: English to Polish, Polish to English, Polish, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
16
at the end of the 20th century
u nich tylko jeden wiek podają - liczą na inteligencję odbiorcy (w przeciwnieństwie do polskiego, gdzie kawa na ławę trzeba powiedzieć)
at the dawn / onset of the 21st century
to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn-of-the-century znasz
cf. 1 http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic1454.html
cf. 2 http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=258260
HTH
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Note added at 30 mins (2008-09-14 10:37:39 GMT)
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jeszcze 'at the close of the 20th century'
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Note added at 6 hrs (2008-09-14 16:54:09 GMT)
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Caryl, I have not received any notifications about the discussion. But in my profile I ticked off most of the boxes to reduce redundant mail. Also, I support your view 100% - the Polish have a fixed phrase where two centuries are mentioned (although logically it does not make any sense). In English one is enough. :-)
at the dawn / onset of the 21st century
to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn-of-the-century znasz
cf. 1 http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic1454.html
cf. 2 http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=258260
HTH
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Note added at 30 mins (2008-09-14 10:37:39 GMT)
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jeszcze 'at the close of the 20th century'
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Note added at 6 hrs (2008-09-14 16:54:09 GMT)
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Caryl, I have not received any notifications about the discussion. But in my profile I ticked off most of the boxes to reduce redundant mail. Also, I support your view 100% - the Polish have a fixed phrase where two centuries are mentioned (although logically it does not make any sense). In English one is enough. :-)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Caryl Swift
: I, of course, particularly like the poetics of 'at the dawn' :-) // Have you received notifications about the discussion that's started here?
5 mins
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Thanks! Apparently, the inherent linguistic intelligence of the Polish language makes the speaker explicitly state that the 21st century follows the 20th century, as if the listener were dumb not to figure this out. I can say so because I am Polish :-)
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Discussion
As I see it (cf. Marek's reply to me), the different cultural dimensions of the languages mean that phrases which are apparantly not 100% identical will, in fact, convey the same meaning. Thus, to look at Marek's response from the opposite side, inherent in the English expression is a level of assumed knowledge.
Also, AFAIK, 'turn' + 'into', is a verb+preposition structure, whereas 'turn', as used here, in the sense of 'transformation', is a noun. I don't think it's grammatically possible to talk about 'a/the turn into' in this context of 'transforming' (though it's absolutely possible when the noun refers to a change of direction in, e.g., a road, as in, for example, 'Be careful! The turn into their driveway is very sharp').